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KINGDOM OF LESOTHO
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
OF THE
SENATE
DAILY HANSARD
OFFICIAL REPORT
OF THE
Thirteenth Meeting – First Session – Tenth Parliament
Date: Monday 29th August, 2022
LENANE LA LITHO TSA NTLO EA MAHOSANA
PARLIAMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF LESOTHO
SENATE CHAMBER
Monday 29th August 2022
The House assembled at 10:30 a.m.
(MR. VICE-PRESIDENT in the Chair)
PRAYER
Assistant Deputy Clerk led the House in Prayer
Communication from the Chair.
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Honourable Members, kea le lumelisa hoseng hoa letsatsi la kajeno. Ke kopa hore re tla khefutsa Ntlo hanyenyane, ho il’o lula Business Committee ka Ofising ea Madam-Presidente by the corner mane.
Ke lebohile, Litho tse Khabane.
The House was suspended at 10:47 a.m.
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Ke na le Tokomane matsohong a rona mono, e ngotsoeng ‘Consideration of Senate’s Amendments to the Eleventh Amendment to the Constitution(Amendment) Bill 2022’. ‘Me bomali-mabe feela ba Tokomane ena ke hore ha se taba eo re neng, re ile ra bua ka eona, ra lumellana ka eona.
Li-amendment tsena tse mona, ke tsane tsa ha re ne re koala ka la 13 July haeba ke ntse ke hopola matsatsi hantle. Eleng ho re this work ha ea etsoa in good faith, ‘me ha le na ho itumella ho ea mono. Re na le mosebetsi oo re o entseng re le ‘moho oo ka oona re neng re lumellane. E kholo eo re tlamehang ho lumellana ka eona Litho tse Khabane, that we should not shy away from, ke hore we are in an abnormal situation. Moo re ke keng ra bolelloa hore Procedure e re tjena, we know hore ho bitsitsoe Paramente ho tla tla e sebetsana le lintho tsena ka tsela, eo re neng re lumellane ka eona, ‘me ele eona eo ho qokuoeng ka eona ka pele ho Council of State.
There is nothing else other than that, eo re tla tla re e etsa, ele hona joale ntho eo re tla tla re etsa hona joale tjena. Re tl’o sebetsana le Pampiri e teng e tala, eo re neng re itse le e fuoe Litho tse Khabane ea li-Amendment tsane tseo re ne re li entse ‘moho le batho ba National Assembly. Ke ‘nete, ‘me ke re tabeng eona eo ea Procedure teng re lokela hore ehlile re suthe tuu.
Ke hore ke re Morena oaka oa Likhoele, u se ke ua njoetsa hore ha ho kenngoa li-Amendment ho etsoa tjena le tjena. Ha re tl’o tsamaea ka that route. Re tl’o tsamaea ka the normal way. Boemo boo re leng ho bona, ha bo normal. ‘Me ke sona Seterata feela se seholo, se re kenyang ka hare ho Motse-moholo.
Pause (3 Minutes…)
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Honourable Members there are some new developments, tseo re fuoang Molaetsa ke Tafole hore hona le Molaetsa o tlohang ka The Royal Palace of Lesotho. O re kopa hore re etse adjourn until 2:30 p.m.
‘Me Ntlo e tla phomola ho fihlela ha hora ea bobeli e fetile ka metsotso e mashome a mararo.
The House Suspended until 14:30
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Ke boetse kea le amohela, Litho tse Khabane, kamor’a lijo tsa mots’eare.
Next Item Mr. Clerk.
2. CONSIDERATION OF NATIONAL ASSEMBLY AMENDMENTS TO ELEVENTH AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION BILL, 2022.
- In Senate Amendment No.1 add the following:-
“In Clause 11, sub-clause 55(2) delete the whole sub-clause and substitute with the following (2); Members of the Senate under (1) (c) shall be appointed by the King, acting on the advice of the Council of State.”
HON. L. RAKUOANE: Ntate Vice-President, ha ke u hlomphe, ke hlomphe Litho tse Khabane tsa Ntlo ea Senate.
Sehlomathiso sena se holim’a Sehlomathiso, ka ’nete ho fumanehile ka lehlohonolo le leholo hore kamor’a hore Ntlo ena le Lekhotla la Sechaba li amohele the said Amendment, e neng e hlaha ho Clause e buang ka 152, eo ka lehlohonolo re nang le eona ka mona, e leng ena e hlahang e le Amendment No. 4 – ka har’a batho bano ba entsoeng mono ho n’o itsoe ‘Senators except Principal Chiefs’, eaba Ntlo ea Senate e ea hlomathisa e re ho nts’oe those Senators there at 152.
152 as is was correct. Taba ena e ne e entsoe ke hore ho n’o ile hoa ka hoa bokelloa batho bohle ba khothaletsoang ho Motlotlehi ke Council of State, ‘me eaba Masenate le ‘ona a behelloa mona, ana a 11, (kapa a 9 ho ea ka proposal ea hona joale) hobane a mabeli a seng a behelletsoe ka thoko ke a Motlotlehi. Joale eaba Masenate ano a kenyeletsoa mono moo 152 e neng e kenyeletsa batho ba khethoang ke Council of State.
Ha Council of State e se e nts’itsoe mono moo ho amehang, eaba Masenate ano a 9 a ntse a sala mono 152, ‘me the Senate picked that issue. Ha e qeta ho e nts’a mono hore ba tlosoe mono, eaba ha ho khutleloe ho 55, hore joale ba khutlele mane moo, under the composition of Senate, ba ‘neng ba etsoa appoint ke Council of State.
E leng hore ho n’o s’o setse ho sa hlaka hore na then the Senators tsena tse ling tse 9 – ha re tseba hore we have 22 Principal Chiefs, we have 2 that are appointed by the King, now the other 9, ho n’o s’o se na moo ba oelang teng. Ke ka hona re bileng lehlohonolo hore ha ho sebetsoa that Amendment eo ho n’o nts’oa the Senators under 152, ebe hoa bonahala hore bana ba teng.
Ke beha hore hee, Ntlo ea Senate e shebe Amendment ena ka mokhoa oo e ka e nkang kateng, e sisintse hore e mpe e bone na e ke ke ea e amohela lebitsong la hore those Senators ho ea ka ts’isinyo e teng hona joale, ho tsejoe hore ba ntse ba ikhetheloa ke Motlotlehi le Council of State, kapa a eletsoa ke Council of State.
So, ka ’nete kea sisinya hore, hee, mohlomong Ntlo e ke e imamelle ho amohela Sehlomathiso sena se tsoang National Assembly.
Ke lebohile, Ntate.
Question, that an amendment be made on an amendment , proposed.
HON. SENATOR K.L.K. THEKO: Mohlomphehi, ha ke tsebe botoloki ba Honourable Minister of Justice, ekare re ka thusana ‘na le eena hore re utloe hore na hana litaba tse ling tse fetotsoeng ke National Assembly – ha ke re li ntse li etsa fall under the agreement that we had and wrote hore this is a new beginning of a new arrangement because ha re sa tl’o tsamaea ka procedure e normal when things are normal? Ha ke re ho joalo, Honourable Minister?
Ke hore ke bua ka eona sub-cluase 55(2) ena ka mokhoa oo u e entseng. Ke utloa the intention ea hao, feela ke bona eka litaba tse ngata tse ntseng li etsoa mona, li entsoe negate because re se re sa sheba ts’obotsi ea ts’ebetso eo re e thehileng ka agreement le ka ts’ebelisano ‘moho eo e ileng ea etsa hore Motlotlehi a be a bule Paramente.
So, ke ne ke re re lumellane hore na ha u talima, the understanding eo re e saenetseng, e ne e bua ka 18 Amendments, tse 15 tsona ekare li lumelletsoe, joale tse tharo ha li sa le eo. Where are we, even before we start about this Section 1? I don’t want to waste the time, but ke re re ke re lumellane, hobane ke utloa e ka lipuisanong tsa maobane Sontaha ho bile le ho se lumellane, hobane ekare the National Assembly has totally relinquished its powers, ba re ba its’etleha ka taba ea procedures tse kang things are normal.
It is no more like Paramente e ile ea etsa collapse! It is no more like ha ‘Muso ka bo oona o il’o kopa Motlotlehi hore a etse ts’ebetso ea hore Prime Minister a etse declare State of Emergency, joale e be the King himself o lokisa litaba. Are we going to agree hore taba eo e se e le null and void, ‘me e etsoa dismiss – not by the House, but by officials? Otherwise taba e-na eona e ea utloahala hore na e entsoe under what circumstances. Can you enlighten us, re ke re qale moo.
Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi.
HON. L. RAKUOANE: Empa akere u ke ke ua sebetsa ka eona, Ntate Vice-President, hobane potso ea hae e tla ho taba ena?
Ke lebohile, Ntate Setho se Khabane Morena oa Thaba.
Baeta-pele ba ntse ba tsitlalletse ho leka ho ea tumellanong, hobane re ne re e etsa le baeta-pele ba mekha ea lipoletiki. Joale feela re bile le bothata ba interpretation e entsoeng ke liofisi tsa rona ha re ne re sisinya hore litemana tse ling li kenngoe, hobane tse ling tsona li entsoe. Ke tla tla ke li bala mona kaofela hore na tse sebelitsoeng, tse bileng li fetileng, tse hlahang Maseru na ke life.
Ke ka hona ke neng ke fane ka tokomane mono ho uena, e tla hlalosa hore na ke…eseng eno! Ke batla e thathamisitseng tse tsoang Maseru; ke eona eo ke tlo tla bua ka eona.
Re ile ra khinoa, ‘me kea kholoa le ba neng ba ‘mametse on televisionhoseng, ke ile ka re ‘Muso ebile o nts’o na le lihlomathiso tsa ona. Ho nts’o na le Lihlomathiso tsa tumellano, feela re fihlile ra khinoa ke botoloki bo ileng ba etsoa ke Botsamaisi ba rona ka Lekhotleng la Sechaba, ha re ne re utloisisa hore ha re sebetsa Lihlomathiso tsena, re bile re kenyelletsa le tse ling – ‘me re ‘ne re tle mona le Ntate Setho se Khabane Letona la Nts’etso-pele ea Meralo, Ntate Mochoboroane le Setho se Khabane Ntate Ntsekele, re hlalosa hore re il’o sebelisa Standing Order No. 64(5) where the National Assembly can make Amendments on the Amendments, hobane mono re ne re entsoe guide hore re ka tseba ho sebetsa litaba tsena ka eona.
Ha re se re le ka hare, re se re ntse re etsa Amendments joale ke moo Amendments tse ling li ileng tsa etsoa rule out ka hore Clauses tseno were not amended, ‘me ke tsona tse ntseng li ts’oere le lipuisano as we are speaking now, whether the Senate should not be in a position to take back some of those Clauses.
Litemana tse sebelitsoeng tsona ke tse9 or 10, tsa Maseru, tse fetileng ka mona. E leng hore tse ts’eletseng ha li eo as of now, hobane li amohetsoe li ntse li le joalo, and werepassed in the National Assembly.
Tsena tse hlokang concurrence…ke eona tumellano. Ha ho nts’o thoe Maseru ho boleloa moo ho neng ho boptjoa tumellano ena eo a mpotsang ka eona. E bitsoa Maseru; ke ea Maseru fashion, Morena oa ka oa Matsieng.
So, what happens ke hore litemana tse ka bang 9 kaofela, tse teng ka mono, tse ka bang hlano tsa teng have been passed now as they were already done, empatse ling ke tsena tseo re kopileng concurrence ho tsona, ‘me ke tseo tse ka bang 6 or 7. Ke tsona tseno.
Empa Clauses tse sebelitsoeng tsona li 9 or 10, tsa Maseru tse fetileng ka mane.
Eleng ho re tse ts’eletseng ha li eo, as of now hobane li amohetsoe ntse li le joalo, they’ve been part of National Assembly, tsena tse hlokang concurrence.
Ke eona tumellano ha ho nts’o thoe Maseru ho boleloa moo ho neng ho botsoa tumellano ena eo a mpotsang ka eona. E bitsoa Maseru or else e bitsoa Maseru pension Morena oa ka oa Matsieng.
So what happens ke hore litemana tse ka bang 9 kaofela tse teng ka mono, tse ka bang hlano tse teng have been passed now as they were already, li entsoe.
Tse ling ke tsena tseo re kopileng concurrence ho tsona, ‘me tseo tse ka bang 6 or 7 ke tsena tseo ho ntseng ho shebisanoa kapa tseo ke lumelang the Senate would be at liberty to propose them, kapa ho tla ke ho be le tiisetso ea hore, as they are proposed they will be given consideration.
That is why there is still a meeting o ntseng o tsoelapele ka tsona—so ana maikutlo ke hore tsena tsona li tle he re tl’o tla li beha, u li nke for whatever they are re li qetile joale le lebelle hore Senate on it’s own e tla sisinya tseno kapa today.
Ke ka hona ke lumelang hore ho ntse ho na le batho bao ho itsoeng ba lokisoe hore ba qale ho etsa type set proposals tseno.
Ke nahana neng-neng etlare ha re qetile mona Ntate Clerk,possible Madam President would be back, then nako eo re etsang lipampiri tseno you would know hore na re hokae moo re leng teng.
But ke ne ke re tse ka bang 6 tsona re na le bopaki ba hore they have been processed by the National Assembly, they have already passed. E le hore tsena ke tse neng li hloka concurrence hobane ho ne ho na le maikutlo a ngolehileng ka bocha. Tsena li ne ntse li se teng pele, empa tse ntseng li le teng lihlomathisong tsa rona li se… I mean yes… li amendment tsa Senate have been passed. Kea kholoa ke tsona litaba tseo nka li hlalosang.
HON.SENATOR. K.L.K THEKO: Just for a short clarity hape Mofokeng e motle. Ke ne ke re ha o’a fihla mane moo ke neng ke re we did agree ha re ne re le Maseru Sun hore we are… you are going to use your other section of the standing order that enables you to operate in that abnormal way because e kang 100 ea rona.
You will know hore ha re etsa the kotopo thing, we did not even have a section e neng e re lumella ka nako eno hobane National Assembly was happy doing that.
Kea hopola ho ne ho bile ho na le batho ba ka bang 95 ha le signela kotopo le kopane kaofela, eaba re sebelisa the amendment…the sections that permits us to formulate a new interim standing order.
Joale ke re, “this time around le bitsa le re we negatived because Molao o’a re hanela. Why do you use that empa re entse tumellano e signetsoeng ke ‘na le uena kapel’a Prime Minister and the King? Hobaneng ekare le ntse le rata ho sebelisa technicality e etsoang ke bahlanka ba sa etseng Melao, Melao e etsoa ke lona na Mohlomphehi oaka?
Ha ke re lumellane mono, ke tla feta joale ha ke sa hlola ke tl’o u khathatsa ha ke tsebe haeba Litho tsa haeso le tsona li na le maikutlo holim’a taba ena. Re tle re fumane a smooth solid, re qete re tle re…eea, Mohlomphehi.
HON.L.RAKUOANE(MINISTER OF JUSTICE): Re entse ts’íts’ínyo eno, but we were overruled by the presiding officer ha re etsa joalo, ele hore the House in one negative done. We did make a proposal rona as per our agreement, eaba re etsoa overrule mono. That is why ke reng, ho ntse ho na le meeting o ntseng o tsoelapele hore na can’t we have a way in which Senate can make those proposals.
That is why ke itseng office ea Ntate Clerk kea kholoa e ntse e lokisa batho ba ntseng ba leka ho li beha hore ka lebaka la nako e seng e ile, then the Senate could also make those proposals li salane morao le tsena li tsebe ho etsoa.
Rona re ile ra mpa ra etsoa rule out feela mono and ha nka ba ka tsába le ho bua hoseng ha ntse ke li detectile hore rona re le puso were ruled out ha re tsoela pele ka litaba tsena, ‘me hee there was not much we can say.
E leng hore le negativity, the House did not negative it, the proposal ea motion oo re neng re o etsa ha e fihla ho amendment tseno, they were suck off in a sense, that is why ke reng ho ntse ho na le meeting o ntseng o leka hore na ho na le letho le ka etsoang hore li tsebe ho khutla, tse bileng li hlahang hona ka Senateng ka mona Morena oa ka.
E leng hore we are still on the game re mpa re ile ra ba le that the unfortunate, mohlomong bothata bono boo ho ileng hoa ba le ruling e joalo eo re ntseng re fumana hore le hona joale as I am saying, ho ntse ho sebetsoa hore na ho ka ba le mokhoa oa hore re pote ka nqane, empa potso ea hao e ne e re na emergency e ka ba teng, ne re bile re bua ka suspension rona hee.
Eaba hothoe re tla be re tlotse molao hobane khang e neng e etsoa e ne e le hore what is before the House is the amendment not the Bill. Joale re re hao! bill eo e ka ba teng, namane ea ba teng ha e na ‘m’a eona joang?…
E le hore ke taba eo le rona re neng re sa e utloe. All of us, ‘me ka’nete I must say, ho se na lekhotla lefe kapa lefe kapa moetapele ofe kapa ofe ea neng a amohela ka tsela eno, empa that is what we were told and therefore eaba re etsa proceed re fetisa tseno tseo ke reng ho tseno tsa Maseru ha re kenyeletsa tsena 9 or close to 10 has been agreed to eaba ho sala tsena tse ling ka hore, li ne li se teng ho amendments tsa rona. Ka hona we were stopped hore joale re li etse.
As I am saying as a last dish e ntseng e etsoa negotiate, ke hore na can Senate …those amendments back? So we look at the feedback from Madam President and the Clerk holim’a taba eno.
HON.SENATOR. K.L.K THEKO: I know how eager you are mongaka re bile re lumellane ka ntho… ako ntsóarele hanyane. I know how eager you are ka taba ea hore re etse mosebetsi ona re o qete joale re tl’o etsa… joale I want to elicit from the Honourable Minister ka’nete re lumellane.
Ke hore Mofokeng, u tseba hore 80 e fana ka limitation of Senate on other laws, tse bileng li qetellang ka hore it will be taba ea National Assembly. Empa joale re batla re khutle re ee ho (85) 4 ea teng e supang eona 80 eno, ke hore sub section 4 of 85 ha e bua ka… e re nothing is standing kapa nothing in this section 80 of this question affects the operation of sub-section 3.
Ha re e sheba ke eona e buang ka alteration ea constitution. Joale ke re na ha ekare haeba Ntate re sebelisa 3 re shebile 4 joale ka 85, do you understand hore ho tla ba le lintho tse tla co-total… haeba li hloka hore li ee ho Matlo ana a mabeli– our referendum. Do you understand the consequences? Na le e shebile taba eo?
‘Na ke utloa eka le ipha mabaka ka bahlanka ba laeloang ke lona hore ba re technicality le lahla ntho e ’ngoe le e ’ngoe le re rea inehela. Empa le lebetse our agreement eo re reng e entsoe ka pele ho Motlotlehi Khosi, ak’o… ee no.. 85 ka mokhoa oo e supang kateng, e re lehaeba 80 e na le ts’obotsi eo, empa lintho tsohle tse entsoeng ka hare ho (85) 3 li ke ke be tsa thulana le eona.
Joale oa utloa hore re toloka taba e ka ’nang ea etsa hore re thulane in this last minute hape?
HON. L.RAKUOANE: Ke lebohile Ntate Vice President. Ke ne ke re Ntate ehlile (85) 3 eo u e boletseng li 4, li bolela hore ntho tseo 3 e boletseng hore li tla ea referendumong ha li na ikobela 80 eane eo ho ka ‘nang ha hlahang National Assembly e na le matla a mang a itseng, that is a public act.
Taba eno e tla behoa ho sechaba, e le hore le lintho tse ling tseo Molao o tlamang hore li ee ho sechaba, li tla ’ne li ee, e le hore ha se hore National Assembly e ka nyametsa maikutlo ano. That is the essence ea 4 ‘me ke lumellana le uena, li tlameha li ee kae, li ee referendumong?
Ntle le haeba potso ea hao e ne e re e le hore lipotso tse tla ba referendumong li tla ba ngata na? But tseno tseo ho sa lumellanoang they will go to the referendum, e le hore National Assembly e ke ke ea sebelisa matla a eona a 80, eleng what you are correct hore ntho e tlamehang ho ea referendumong the National Assembly e ke be ea tla ema mona kapa haeba e ne e etsa eona taba eno eo u reng e ea e etsa ea procedure e lekang ho ea koana le koana ebe e etsa hore ho sitisoe lintho tseno tseo hothoeng li tla botsoa sechaba. Akere ke eona potso ea hao?
I totally agree with you, feela ke re morero ona o khutlela moo u neng u botsitse ka agreement, ke hore re ‘ne re fumane mokhoa oa ho khutlela ho eona. Ha re re taba e joalo… ‘me ke re that is why there is still a meeting as we are talking now o ntseng o leka hore na ha re etsa simplify taba ea hore Senate se khutlise litaba tseno, National Assembly e li sebetse ka mane even today ha re qeta ho etsa clear tsena.
Ke ka hona ke reng ka’nete ‘na ke ne ke re ho lokile Ntate, e re re sebetse tsena ele hore that is the next chapter ka morao hore re fetise tsena.
Ke lebohe Ntate Vice President.
HON.SENATOR. K.L.K THEKO: Ke re ho uena if the two Houses do not agree on certain sections of the constitution, it does not even necessarily mean hore ebe e isoe le sechabeng, hakere ho joalo? Taba eo ba lumellaneng le…
MR.VICE PRESIDENT: Morena Khoabane se ke oa etsa hore le qoqe le eena.
HON.SENATOR. K.L.K THEKO: Ke hobane ke batla ho bona a se ke a nqhekella.
Ke re Mofokeng when two Houses do not agree on any section in 85 whether A,B or C, ha re sa lumellana ha ho sa na le mo… bohlokoa ba ho isa taba eo sechabeng e ea shoa, ha ho joalo?
HON. L.RAKUOANE: O botsa taba ea bohlokoa joale eo ke tsebang hore ka nako e ’ngoe ha re ts’oaneng ebile ho na le batho ba chong joalo ba haeso mane, anthe ‘na ke fapane le bona ‘me ke tla hlalosa na hobaneng.
I hope le attorney ea ka o tla lumellana le rona. E re ke u balle eona na e reng, C(85) leha ele mona …a ingolla ntho li sele tse thata ka boomo, ke hore ebe Molao ho o thola feela ebe re ntse re sokola.
Ke batla mona holim’a 4 feela, moo e reng provided that if the bill does not alter any of the provision mentioned in paragraph A. and is supported at the final voting in each house of parliament by the votes of no less than 2/3 of all members of that House, it shall not be necessary to submit it to the elector.
E leng hore e bolela hore it shall be necessary ha ho etsahala joang? Ha le sa lumellane, if it doesn’t get 2/3 of them, e le hore ha e shoe. Ehlile ke re that section eo batho ba nahanang hore hothoe ntho e kebe ea ea referendumong when it… ha e sena 2/3 ke mokhoa oo sebelisoang lentsoe ‘’it shall not be necessary.
Ke ka hona ka 2009 ha re ne re etsa fourth amendment, when the Senate endorsed the mixed member proposal eleng sitting e teng hona joale, the National Assembly e ne e etsa pirate. Ho ne ho tsejoa hore re ea referendumong then only we didn’t have a law then, hobane moo Matlo ana a sa lumellane ha ho thoe bill eno e ea shoa. That is why the word used it shall not be necessary ho ea kae– ho ea ka public… which means ordinarily bill e ne ntse le a subject of a referendum.
But once ba lumellana we kill the referendum, it shall not be necessary, which means ha ba sa lumellane, it goes to the referendum.
Ena ea hore it gets killed, it is not – that is why the words used say, “it shall not be necessary”, which means ehlile morero oa 85 ke hore ntho e ’ngoe le e ’ngoe e ee kae, e ee referendumong empa ha re baleha referendum ke hore re lumellane ka Matlo a mabeli.
That is why the words used are “it shall not be necessary. Ha re qala re hanana it… necessary to go for a referendum not the killing eo batho ba e proposang hore, it shall be killed.
E ea Ntate, so ke mokhoa ona ke reng, haeba ho ka hanoa nakong eo seng administrative eba nako eo ho thoeng IEC e ea ho referendum, ho se ho siuoa tse ling– then they have… ea hore it shall not be necessary when it comes to that. Ke hore ha ba sa lumellane, ke sechaba se tla arola litaba tseno tsa bona ha ho thoe li ea shoa.
Litaba ha li se li le ho sechaba ha li nyamele, then they will be subject with the referendum ha ho bonahala ha ba etse joalo Morena oa ka. You have raised a very important section.
E ea Ntate, Ha re sebetse li amendment tsena… they are 9, 9 Morena oa ka even for the record that have been passed, it’s not everything that has been negative, tsena tse setseng le tsona have not been processed —not negatived. They are waiting to be processed once we agree kapa le Senate se ntse se na le tokelo ea ho li etsa re-submit.
I put my case Ntate, I rest my case.
MR VICE-PRESEDENT: Order Morena Khoabane.
Question put and agreed to.
Next Item, Mr Clerk!
‘The National Assembly requests the Senate to concur to the second Amendment which has the second heading – Public Debt’.
HON MINISTER L. RAKUOANE: Public Debt e ea hlaha ka mona e ka be e ntse e fetile e le joalo e ile ea mpa eaba ho na le Sehlomathiso se ileng sa kenngoa ha re le mane. E re ke bone hore na ke temana mang ka mona. Ke page 10 e neng e hlaile mona me (a) and (b) tsa eona as proposed at the Maseru Avani are like that. Eare ha re fihla mona moo ho nang le (d) eaba ho sisinngoa hore Letona ha le entse budget, ha le tsoa ceiling joale le tlo tla le kopa.
Kea kholoa ke eona ntho e ncha feela e tlileng. Public Debt as is, e kene joaloka propose mane eaba taba ke hore ho thoe bonyane ho tsejoe hore ha a tlola ceiling empa 2 eane e neng e bua ka hore Paramente e tle e etse the minimum, re tla bona hore e ntse e le teng ha re na le temana eno ea rona ea Maseru o tla bona hore taba ea hore Paramente e ne e etse set the minimum. An act of Parliament shall preside e ea hlaha ka mona and shall preside a minimum of loan to be approved or reported by Parliament e ntse e le teng. Ke litaba tseo re neng re lumellane ka tsona.
Ho mpang ho kene ho hocha ho entseng hore re khutlele mona ke taba ena ea ceiling. Ena e reng a proposed borrowing in case of borrowing which is outside a borrowing ceiling shall be submitted by a Minister responsible or Finance and to be approved by Parliament. Ha a ile a tlisa budget mona a bonts’a hore na o fella kae, ha a tlola mono a khutle. Empa ha e ea tlosa tumellano ea rona ea Avani ea hore ho tle ho ’ne ho be le Act of Parliament e etsang set li-ceiling tsa mekoloto eane eo re reng e etsoa approve by Parliament le eo a fihlang a etsa report feela hobane mohlomong ho tla be ho nkoa e le menyane, e leng hore that would be the Act of Parliament e tla etsa taba eno e leng hore the split of Maseru se teng mona in the Public Deb,t Bahlomphehi ba ka, so I move hore kannete Ntlo e imamelle hore na ha e amohele Public Debt or concur as proposed by the National Assembly so I move ntate Vice-President.
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Kea leboha Honourable Minister.
Question Proposed on Amendment No. 24.
HON SENATOR J.A. MOTS’OENE: Mohlomphehi, kea kholoa motho ha u batle le ho bua haholo hobane re mpa re soabile ke taba ena eo bo-Mohlomphehi Letona ka Ntlo eane ea Bakhethoa ba e etsang ka hore ba lahle Lihlomathiso tsa Ntlo ena ebe ba re sitisa le ho etsa mosebetsi ka nako.
Mohlomphehi, taba ena ea Sehlomathiso sena ea hore ebe ba qotsa lihlomathiso tse itseng tseo ba bonang eka ha li molemong oa bona ebe ba behella ka thoko tse molemong oa bona tse seng molemong oa bona ebe ba re re tlo li fetisa kahar’a Ntlo ena ke utloa e le bomali-mabe Honourable Minister e be o sebelitse taba ena e bile a fihla a tekenela a bua leshano ka pele ho Motlotlehi.
Mohlomphehi, taba ena eo ke e buang ke hobane eena Mohlomphehi Letona ha a ne a tekenela taba ena ea tumellano ea rona re le Ntlo ea Senate le Ntlo ea Bakhethoa, eena e le moemeli oa Ntlo ea Bakhethoa re lumellane hore re tlo e sebetsa joang taba ena.
Re tsamaile masiu Honourable Minister re buisana ka litaba tsena ebile ekare re tla lumellana feela tsatsing lona lena ke enoa u khutla ka tokomane e ts’etseng Amendment tse peli empa hee kaha litaba tsena tsa Amendment ena eo a buang ka eona Sehlomathiso sena seo a buang ka sona ke taba ea lichelete tsa sechaba tseo re neng re bua ka tsona hore naha ena lichelete lia nyamela, ha ho thoe letho ka tsona li qetelle ho bile ho se na motho ea qosoang holima tsona.
E-ba taba ea motoho oa ngoan’a ‘Malehloa. Kannete ke re re tle re amohele Sets’oants’o sena sa Molao e le hore lichelete re tle re tsebe joalokaha re le balisa ba tsona ebile re le Paramente re etsa Melao e molemong oa Sechaba. Ka mantsoe ana Mohlomphehi ke tlatsa Sehlomathiso sena sekola se le ka mahlong.
Question on Senate Amendment No 24 put and agreed.
Next item
‘The National Assembly further requests the concurrence of the Senate to agree to Amendment No 3 with the heading; Media’
HON MINISTER L. RAKUOANE: Ke lebohile, Ntate Vice-President le Litho tse Khabane. Sehlomathiso sena sa boraro holima sa Senate sa No.25 ke sona se ntseng se tsoa moo ho neng ho ile hoa buisanoa ka mor’a hore nakong ea NRA mohlomong le media li rata ho qhalakanya litaba tsena tsa bo-Ombudsman le the Media Council eaba rea lumellanang hore ha ho etsoe hore Ombudsman eena a tle a fumanehe kahar’a lekhotla leno la media ‘me taba e etsoang mona ke hore the media shall establish the Media Council and other offices e leng hore it is a Media Council e tla bona hore lekhotla le joalo la bonamoli le ba teng rather than mane moo hono etsoa propose ho an independent constitutional structure.
E leng hore moelelo oa hore Media Council e be teng feela re se ke ra fumana re na le litsi tse ngata haholo. Media Council eona letaba tse ling li hlahe kahar’a eona joalokaha re bua ka bo-commission ea li-sports e tla ba le li-tribunal tsa eona e etse joang joang, ‘me ka mokhoa o ts’oanang ke tsona litaba tsena ‘me ke ne ke re Sehlomathiso sena Ntlo e imamelle ho se amohela. So I move Ntate Vice-President.
Question that Amendment No.25 stand part of the Bill Proposed
Ha u talima ts’obotsi ea National Assembly in deleting everything e hlahang ka mona ka Senateng ho eona ena ea the Senate amendment ke karolo ea boraro kapa Section 3 of Amendments. In Senate Amendment No. 24 delete the whole Amendment. Akere u oa utloisisa? Delete the whole Amendment eane ea Senate and substitute it with the following in Clause 38 sub-clause 149 after sub-clause 3 and a new sub-Clause as follows; joale e re the Media Council shall establish Media Ombudsman and other offices as it may be necessary and re-number sequentially.
Honourable Minister re tlo lumella litaba tsena; we have taken the stand because we know you are very cooperative. Le hana ho utloa everything eo re e behang ha re na mokhoa ona o amicable oo ke neng ke u supisa le ka taba ena ea hore the Constitution provides hore e tla etsa select litaba tse itseng tse etsang emanate from the disagreement of these Houses. Empa chehe bo! Le tiisitse hlooho. Ha re ne re buoa ka taba eo Ntate, re ne re re re etse a good media e tla ba le Ombudsman e tla ba le ts’obotsi e tla lokisa litaba ho etsa kopano ea sengoli le motho eo ho ngoloang ka eena joale khahlanong le Melao in reconciliation with the Law that we make.
Everything eo le e etsang chehe bo! kannete uena u tseba ho bua litaba; u kheleke. Ha ke u buoe hampe oa tseba. Kannete ke re u tseba ho bua litaba. U kheleke. Joale mohlomong u itsamaisetsa ka batho bana ha ke kholoe le hore ba utloile 99% ea bona hore na u ne u ntse u reng ha le etsa this Amendment because you know media houses in every country e tlameha hore e etsoe control kennete empa ts’obotsi ea independence must be seen to be done.
Re tla tla re fihla tabeng e ’ngoe e kholohali eo ke etsang mohlala feela ke feta ka eona moo le reng ha re se ke ra lumella Tona-Kholo… ke hore le batla hore everything should be under the control of the governance kapa of the government of the day. Kea ipotsa hore na ha Molimo a ka etsa hore le se ke la ts’oasa matla na ha le tlo hopola lintho tsena tseo re neng re re re li etsa in good faith? The time will come and shine upon you hore le bone hore le sentse ts’obotsi e neng e rereloa hore e lokise litaba. In everything that we have done. U tle u bone li-delete tse tlo hlaha mona, Mohlomphehi. Ha se ka delete ke tloho u tlo bona. Ba iketsetsa tsa bona ba resela tseo-but ntho e ‘makatsang ke ea hore all political parties. All members of parliament in the National Assembly had a role to play in the NRA. They did not come up with these innovations ha rona re lokisa re nka litaba tsa NRA le li lahla kaofela Bafokeng kannete re soabile empa hee ha re tsoeleng pele because we got a trick eo re batlang ho tla e beha ka pele ho this Parliament tonight, today. Kea leboha.
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Honourable Minister
HON MINISTER L. RAKUOANE: Ke lebohile, Ntate. Ka lehlohonolo I am privileged ho ba pela honourable Senator Morena oa ka oa Thaba mona hore ke mpe ke bale feela hore na ha ho thoe ho kenngoe number 4 ke hobane tse tlang pele ho tsona… ‘me ke lintho tse ‘ne feela che ke hantle ha batho ba media ba le teng hore ha ho’a etsoa khang ka litaba tsa bona.
Why is it now contained in the Bill e leng hona ho thoeng hona e tle e-be 4, 1 there shall be a general principle on media and Media Council of Lesotho. There shall be diversity of media ownership and media content in Lesotho including freedom of press, access to information and other communications which shall play an integral part in the development of democratisation process of the country. That is the first principle e ngotsoeng ka mona e leng 1.
2, there shall be a Media Council of Lesotho which shall be an independent body which regulates the entire media industry. 3, in performance of this function, the media council shall not be subject to the control and direction of any person or authority. That is 3 ena e 4 e reng then the Media Council e tle e kenye le Media Ombudsman and other offices as an independent body ho latela 3. So it is an Act of Parliament e tla tla ho tseno tseo ho thoeng li fokolitsoe. That is all. So it is four principles tseo ke li balileng ho kenyeletsa le ena eo re e kopang ea hore Media Ombudsman e-be teng. Na ho thoe ha re na ho bopa a good Media Council Act or Bill ha e itints’itse kapa folomente ea eona e le lintho tse ’ne joale rea mola moo re nang le nako ea ho ea to all the … The difference ea approach ea National Assembly kapa ea the proposal is only the… not the principles. These are the 4 principles Morena oa ka, Litho tse Khabane le bona litho tsa media tse teng mona.
HON.SENATOR J.A MOTS’OENE: Ha ke u lebohe, Mohlomphehi Madam President, ke hlomphe Tafole, le Litho tse Khabane. Mohlomphehi, ke ema mona motho sekola se le ka mahlong le hoja re ne re ka ba motlotlo haholo ha ene ekaba re ema mona e feela re phuthullutse lipelo, empa ha ho hlokahale re lahle ts’epo, re mpe re ananele tsebiso ena e potlakileng ea qomatsi ho ipapisitsoe le phatlalatso ea molao ka hore re ne hla ra bona taba ena, Mohlomphehi, hore ke maholi a patile maeba, ‘me ra ‘na ra ipotsa hore na ebe re ka ba le ts’epo joang ho batho bona bana.
Bao ereng le qeta ho bua ba boele ba hlanohele taba e le qetang ho e bua ho so fete le letsatsi feela lipakeng. Mohlomphehi, kea tseba ka nako enngoe litaba tsa naha ena li ebe maemong ao re lakatsang eka re ka sebetsang ‘moho ka kutloano, molemong oa sechaba ka kakaretso le molemong oa rona re le baeta-pele. Empa ruri ho ea soabisa ho hlokomela ka boemo bo bonahalang eka botla its’ena hobane litaba tsa hore ebe ho ile ha etsoa phatlalatso ena ea qomatsi, ene ele molemong oa hore re tlo tla re sebetsana le litaba tsa tlhopho bocha.
’Me tse sa etsoang ke rona, ekaba ka bo mong ka hare ho Ntlo ena, kapo ka Ntlong e ka tlase, ea Bakhethoa, empa ele lentsoe la sechaba. Le Sesotho se ntse se re Morena ke Morena ka sechaba, lentsoe la sechaba ke phoho. Empa ha u sheba matsatsing ana, u sheba tsela eo bapolotiki ba rona ka hare ho naha ena ea Lesotho ba its’oereng ka eona, u bona ele bona poho ka hare ho naha ena. Ba iketsetsa borata ebile ba sa tsotelle le Molao hore na o reng, ‘me litaba tsena kaofela ke tsona tse re tlisitseng boemong bona bona ba hore ebe re lutse ka sebopeho sona sena, re bua litaba tsona tsa mofuta o tjena. Mohlomphehi, re bula tjena hobane re re ha ke re tloheng mekhoeng, kapo litabeng tsa maoba le maobane re ke re bone na re hahamalla pele joang, re batalatsa mabala, ele molemong oa sechaba, re lokisa Lesotho leo rele hlokang. Feela ha u re oa sheba ha se Lesotho leo re le hlokang re le Basotho kaofela leo ho bonahalang re le sebeletsa.
Baetapele ba rona, haholo-holo, Mohlomphehi ke tla ‘ne ke toboketse taba ena ea bapolotiki ba rona, u bona ele bona ba batlang hore ba sebeletse Lesotho leo ba le hlokang. Taba ena motho o e bua hobane lehaeba oa mamela, yes, re sebelisa leano la puso ea sechaba ka sechaba, feela ha re tlameha re re molemong oa sechaba ha u bone re sebetsa joalo.
Mohlomphehi, sechaba ha se hloke eng, ba ithlokela bosebelatsi feela, ke taba e mona eo re eng re e bue ka hare ho Ntlo ena re re oa tseba e utloisa bohloko haholo hobane u tla fumana ha ho buuoa ka naha ea Lesotho ho buuoa ka Maseru, ha u bone kapo ha ho bonahale ho na le motho ofe kapo ofe lipolotiking eo u ka batlang ho bona a theolela matla a puso ea sechaba metseng mane.
Mohlomphehi, oa tseba ts’ebetso ee ea rona hoja re ne re e sebetsa ka maikutlo a ts’oanag, eseng hobane ho na le karoloana e itseng e nyane haholo ka lipalo, feela ka ha ba bang ba fuoe matla, u fumana hore matla ana aa ba taea. Mohlomphehi, ho bohloko haholo ho bona thutsoana e chesa naha, re bone mohlala haholo ka litaba tsena tsa tsamaiso e bohla e tlisoang ke bapolotiki. Ka 1998 mona naha e ile ea ‘na ea cha, ho ne ho sa hlokahale le hore litaba tsa mofuta ono li ile tsa etsahala ka lebaka la batho ba babeli ba bararo feela, ‘me Mohlomphehi, re re litaba tsena ha re li lokiseng re tlohetse ho saooa ka tsela efe kapa efeng, le hore ebe ho na le mekha ea lipolotiki e mengata ka sebopeho sena se tjena mona, ke hore motho haa utloisisi. Kapo ebe banna etlaba hobane motho ho thoe joale uena u ka Boreneng ka mole ke mokh’o u
satlo utloisisa?
Empa re re, Mohlomphehi, taba ena ea phatlalatso ena, oee! re etsa thapheli ho bapolotiki ba rona bao ho ka bonahalang ba sena that political will nthleng ea ho tla sebetsa sets’oants’o sena sa Molao hore ha re ke re hlompheng Ntate Motlotlehi Rabasotho hobane o tena a etsa gazzetement ena ea phatlalatso ena ea hore ebe re lutse ka sebopeho sena ka mona ele hobane re ile ra mo fa tiisetso le ts’epo ea hore re tla tla re sebetsa litaba. Ke utloa bohloko haholo hobane litaba tsena ka nako enngoe ha u sa tsebe oa botsa ka tsona empa ene ere mohla monene re sa ntsane re sebetsa litaba tsena, ka re hona ke maholi a patile maeba, hobane u ne u bona ho ena le lekunutu kapo ho ena le taba e patoang hore na hantle-ntle re bua joang ka sona sets’oants’o sena sa Molao.
U ne u sa utloi moo ehlileng nthla e re ae ha re se sebetseng kapo re nkeng litemana tse itseng le tse itseng, tsena joang kapo joang re tla li bona ka mor’a likhetho, kapo ache hohang ehlile rea li lahla, Mohlomphehi, ke tsona litaba tseo re reng ha ho sebetsoe litaba ka ponaletso re tlohele ho sebetsa ka hore re ts’episane maleo. Taba ena ea maleo ena ehlile ke eona e ntseng e re bakela mofere-fere o tjena, ‘me re keke ra ba maemong ana kaofela ana ao re a shebang. Ha re ka mpa ra arolelana feela ho lekana hore na molemong oa hore ha re etsa bosebeletsi, na re etsa bosebeletsi ehlile re re ke molemong oa sechaba kapo ke molemong oa rona re le baetapele? Mohlomphehi, ka ‘nete ke itse ke ema ka sekola se ka mahlong, Sesotho se re “li bo fule li bo ts’oha esere mohlaope ba li ts’oarisa serotsoana” kea leboha.
HON. SENATOR T. AU: Kea leboha, Madam President, ke hlompha Litho tse Khabane le Tafole ea hau le ‘na ‘m’e. ke ne ke re le ‘na ke eme ho ts’ehetsa ts’its’inyo ena, eo morena oa ka oa sehlooho oa Matsieng a e hlalositseng ka bokheleke bo boholo haholo hore sepheo se seholo sa eona ke ho lokisa tsona li procedure tsane tseo re ntseng re bua ka tsona mona. Tsona tsena tseo lekhetlong lena ekang li batla ho sebelisoa khahlano… I would not say khahlano le Senate, ‘na ke bona li sebelisoa khahlano le sechaba, lisebelisoa khahlano le naha, li seblisoa khahlano le bokamoso ba the new generation.
Ha ke bone li sebelisoa khahlano le Senate, ‘na ke e bona beyond that. As we know ha paramente e ile ea qhaloa joale Melao ena e so kaba e feta, the only way ea hore Paramente e etsoe re–convene ke hore ho etsoe declare the state of emergency, seo Mohlomphehi Tonakholo ka nepo kapo ka Molao a se entseng. Ke shebile mabaka ka hare ho gazette ena eane ea state of emergency eo mohlomphehi Tonakholo a e phatlalalitseng, ke shebile mabakanyana a mangata ao a a behileng a hore ke ho leka hore ka morao ho likhetho ho ke ho felisoe taba ena ea hore ho be sale nako ena kaofela ho na le political instability.
Ke shebile mabaka ao a a behileng a hore ba leka hore bats’ireletse kapo hona ho thiba hore naha e seke ea lahleheloa ke ts’ehetso ea the development partners ba re ts’ehelitseng ka litaba tsa li chelete. But at the same time ke shebile litaba tse etsuoang ke National Assembly, kapo ke ‘Muso, I would say ke ‘Muso ‘na ke bona li lants’oana le tsona litaba tseno because ke bona batho ba lekang, ba sebeletsang hore litaba tsona tseno li tlo tla li tsoela pele, tsona tseno tseo ba reng ba leka ho li ts’ireletsa.
Tsona tseno tsa hore ka morao ho likhetho ho be le botsitso, ‘na ke bona ba sebeletsa hore ho seke hoa ba le botsitso because ke bona batho ba shebileng only their selfish interests ele bo ra-lipolotiki, ha b’a sheba litaba tsa secheba hobane u bona joalokaha ke hlalositse, ‘na ha ke bone Batho ba hlonohelang Senate feela, ke bona batho ba hlanohelang le sechaba hobane litaba tsena tseo ba li hlanohelang le litaba tseo u fumanang hore ba leka ho li protect ka hore ba ‘ne ba tlo re etsetsa li excuse ka litaba tsa li procedure, ‘na ke bona ele mokhoa oo ba o sebelisang ho hlanohela litaba tse beuoeng ke sechaba hore li tlo tla li fitisoa ele ho tsitsisa naha.
Ke bona batho bao e leng hore ba boetse ba hlanohela le oona machaba ao ba ntseng ba qekisa chelete ea bona, ke bona ba hlanohela litaba tsona tseno le ho hlapaola lits’ehetso tseno tse ba ntseng ba li fuoa ke oona machaba. Ke bona ele litaba tse bolutu ka mokhoa o makatsang tseo bahlomphahi ba li etsang, motho u n’u bile u ntse u nahana u re banna, ebe taba ee e bakoa ke eng ee ea bo selfish bo bokaale-kale, re na le batho ba selfish bona boo, ke hore bo selfish ba boemo bo holimo ka ho fitisisa boo ke sa utloisising se bo tsoalang keng. Joale motho u n’u ntso u nahana hore ebe taba ee e tsoaloa ke meropotsonyana eo e moo, ebe can we reconsider hore ebe kannete litho tsa Paramente li ke li fumane the lowest salaries? Ke hore re tlose li incentive tseno tse mono because joale batho ba tlohela ntho e ‘ngoe le e ‘ngoe ba ea ba matha mane, joale ke ntse ke nahana hore banna ekanna eaba ke khomo ea moshate joale ha u tlosa li incentive tseno ba leka ka hohle hore ba tlotla ba laola li tender.
Joale ba tlo tla ba ja hona ho li-tender mono, ke hore ke corruption e tebileng hona hoo ho haesale, hona joale tjena e ‘ngoe ea litaba tse kannang eaba re tsietsing ea tsona ebe ke eona e ntseng e baka litaba tsena ke hore re se re le ka hare ho tsietsi ea state capture, re na le batho bao eleng hore they are already captured. So ekenna eaba ba ntse ba meneka tjena ba ipotsa hore banna joale ha batho baa ba etsa tje, ba tsamaea ba re thibela le litabeng tsa bo khiro, tsa bo eng, re tlo tla re patala batho baa joang? Because joale ba ts’ehelitsoe ka li million, ntate Mokhoeng Mokhoeng hona le che nkebe ka tseba ho e quote verbatim litaba tseno tsa hae, moo a reng ha motho a u isa lijong ka maloti a lekholo kannete ekanna eaba ke hobane feela a u support, ha a u ts’ehetsa ka maloti a sekete, le teng ekanna eaba oa u support.
Empa ha a ka a u fa li-million tse leshome u tsebe ke investment, o lebelletse a payback and investment ea 10million o lebelletse more than 100million. So re tsietsing ea bapolotiki bao eleng hore ba fuoa lichelete tse boima haholo tseo joale ba leng tsietsing ea hore na ba tlo tla ba li lefa joang, ‘me ntho efe kapo efe eo re tlang ho e etsa, e ba bonang eka ekare it’s going to be a threat, e tlo sitisa hore joale ba tle batlo khutlela li chelete, they may try as much as possible hore ba block any attempts tseo e leng hore rea li etsa ho leka ho bona hore na sechaba se sebeletsoa joang.
Ka ‘nete re tsietsing e ts’abehang re etsa li reform feela u ntse u bona hore re sebetsa li reform le batho ba sa rateng li reform, batho ba sa rateng Basotho, batho ba sa rateng Lesotho, batho ba ichebetseng bo bona feela as the individuals, ‘me kannete ‘na ntle le taba ea ho bua ka mokhoanyana o thata, ache kannete, kannete re lokela ho ba thiba, re lokela ho ba thiba kannete ka mekhoa eohle eo re ka ra thusoang ka eona. Ha ba sa thijoe ha ke bone anybody a tla ba thiba, hobane le sechaba ke hore botsotsi boo ba bo etsang ke hore ha ke tsebe, Bahlomphehi, ebile Marena aka boholo ba lona che ke batho ba tsebang litaba tsa naheng, baa tseba hore phokojoe ha e ilo ja linku, ‘m’e President, ekanna eaba ha u tsebe, e ea ipitika, ke hore joang kapo joang e tla li ja linku tseno.
E li ja letsatsi le chabang le le likelang e ea e ipitika, ha e ea e iptika ho tsona moo, linku tsena li ea atamela u fumana li ntse li otla ka leoto fats’e li atamela ho eona mono, ha e re lai e ts’oere ea eona e ea e ja. Ke bophelo boo phokojoe e bo phelang, e e ts’oere qoqothong mona. Joale re na le liphokojoe tse maoto a mabeli, ke hore ke ‘nete ea morena Molimo, joale kannete re ts’oanela re pholose sechaba. ‘Na I am not speaking hobane ke le ka mona ka Senateng ka mona, I will still state even when I am outside here. Borena esale bo re tlisetsa stability for a very long time esale re na le stability, ke ntho eane eo earlier mona ke neng kere na ma America a re if it’s not broken don’t fix it. Esale re na le stability but the more re bonang re ba le a lot of political control the more u bonang re na le a lot of crisis, hobane joale re na le batho ba ichebileng ba sa shebang sechaba. Bao e leng hore, re ne re entse khang mona in the morning ka litaba tsa lintho tse sa ts’oanelang hore li kene ka hare ho constitution hobane ho thoe ke lintho tse nyane li ts’oanela li lo ke na ka hare ho an Act of Parliament.
Kannete ea Molimo botsotsi bo tlo ba mono kea u joetsa ha li se li le sieo ka hare ho constitution, ha re fihla ka hare ho Act of Parliament ho lo thoe ke Minister a tla etsa lintho tseno. Kea u bolella ehlile Borena bo tla be bo se bo le tsietsing. Morena Khoabane kea kholoa o lebetse but ha ke lumele a lebetse, o naka a bua a re esale ba ntse kokona hanyane ka hanyane matla a borena ho se ho setse masapo feela kajeno lena, le ‘ona masapo ana ke bona eka ba tla a ja haufinyane ho sale ho sena letho. So kannete ke ne ke re ka ‘ona mantsoe ana, ‘m’e President, ke ne ke re ke ts’ehetse ts’its’inyo ena hore ae kannete e fete mosebetsi oona o tsebe ho etsoa hobane litaba tsena tsa ho etsa bo Molao ona o reng ho declare the state of emergency li ne li etsoa with good intentions but re na le batho ba tsoang… ke hore ntho e ‘noge le e ‘ngoe e beoang mono they find a means hore ba e tsoe tlase.
Ke hore re tsietsing ena e ts’abehang, hantle-ntle emergency ke eona tsietsi ena ea… emergency eo re leng ka hare ho eona ke ea lipolotiki tsa bosholu, ke eona emergency e fetang le ena eo re sebetsanang le eona hona joale tjena. Kea leboha.
HON.SENATOR. K.L.K THEKO: Mohlomphehi, kannete re se re soabile feela, re bile re utloa hantle hore ho na le batho ba tlo re ba ba laile, ba ne ntse ba ea kae le bona? Hobane lentsoe le leholo e ne e le hore ho uoe likhethong ho tle ho etsoe mosebetsi ona, empa ka botho ba rona ra re empa re tlabe re sa nepa hobane motho ea tla kena ka mora likhetho a ka ‘na a re ena o na le mandate oa lintho tseo a ileng a li ts’episa sechaba ‘me ka hona o tlanne a bone taba eo, ke mang a ka mo etsang letho ha a cho joalo?
Ka nako eane motho ho thoeng ke Broudy, ke Mahomad kapo ke Broudy, ea ileng a kopanya Ipa eaba ho etsoa khetho ea hore re tlaba le ntsoepelele ea 50% le first pass the post fold ea 50%, ke hore li lekane. E ile eaba karolo ea tumellano e kholo e ileng ea fihleloa empa e ne e re ntate Mosisili ha a lula setulong a re aek’hona ha ke tlo e etsa ntho eno. Bo selfish ba motho u mo bona ha a se a lutse litulong, Abraham Lincoln o ne a cho a re “if you want to test the character of man give him power.” So re ea bona joale, hona le batho ba neng ba ena le litoro tsa hore ha ke ba Prime Minister, I am going to own Makhotla, ke tlo owner li security agency le public offices tseno tse lokolisitsoeng mane moo re neng re tseka hore na haele Judicial service, ele Tonakholo na ho tla khethoa ka tsela efe.
Taba ena e bonts’a hantle hore e koatisitse batho ba ne seng ba ts’episitse batho hore re tla tla re etsa mosebetsi, empa hore re se ke ra ebisanang litsebe ke hore re lumeleng hore re adopt mosebetsi ona oo ke utloang kena le ts’abo le thothomelo e kholo ea hore ekanna eaba o tlo senyeha, ha hona ntho e tlo etsahala. Ke hore ke ts’abo e ke nang le eona hobane it’s a strategy. Hona le batho ba se ntseng ba ile ba ts’episoa hore uena ke ilo u isa mose, uena ke tlo u etsa judge, uena ke tlo u etsetsa hona le hoane ha ke tla, and for heaven’s sake what makes them believe hore ba tla win likhetho? That is why re bona a legal powers kapo a leader in…house ea Parament, National Assembly, mohlang e leng letsatsi la ho qetela ebe ha a eo ka Ntlong ka mona.
Leha re se re ba bitsa ba le babeli enoa o re ae ‘na ke mabatooeng, on the last day ea ho etsa mosebetsi. Ha a qeta motho eo oa Molimo, o kile a re bitsa ra lula le eena Manthabiseng mane for breakfast, a re ke le kopa hore business ena ha e fihla le kopana le batho bane le tle le etse ka matla hore re kopaneng hle ka bosebeletsi hore re qete ts’ebetso ena. Joale ha u sebelisa motho a weak ea senang ts’obotsi, e leng kofuto, kofuto ekare ke tlhapa, no it’s a proxy, it’s a person ea lumelang kapo eo u ka mo sebelisang hobane a tseba hore o ja ka pokothong ea hau. Ea tsebang hore a ke be a win likhetho leha ho kaba ha thoe, le lebatooa lena la lebatooa haesale le mo hlola.
Joale le re ngoana e mong a tlohele papa ea hae? Haesale a phela ka tsela e joalo, haesale ha le ka la mo sheba ha a so ka a eba le nako ho bile ha a etse win motho a tlang ka tlas’a hae. Joale ha se qalo Ntate, Qalabane ha se ka koaqane, empa he kannete ke ne ke re re tloheleng taba ena ea aproval of declaration. Ho re soabisang rona re le borena ke hobane re bile ntsoe le leng ho kholisa Motlotlehi Khosi hore a etse taba ena. Ka borona, individually, hona le ba buileng le Motlotlehi hore Ntate, etsetsa sechaba sena molemo hobane ho na le batho ba nang le conspiracy ea hore ntho ena e seke ea etsahala. Ebe e tla ba lihlong tse kakang, do they care ha a ka soaba, they don’t, all they care is for themselves. Ke hopola nako eo ha ke ntse ke bala history ha ntse ke hola ka morena eo ho neng ho thoe ke Charles 1st eo a ileng a khaoloa hlooho a bolaoa England, eaba England e ba Republic for 11 years.
Motho eno eo ho thoeng ke Oliver Chromen ea neng a etsa mosebetsi ona, o ile a lula a etsa Paramente le batho, ba ne ba nahana hore purpose ea bona ea ho tlosa Charles 1st e tlilo ba monate ka hore sechaba se utloe monate. Empa ka lilemo tseno tse 11, sechaba sa complain hoo le eena a ileng a ba tebeloa ka Paramenteng straight, a laela Ntate mane a re nka molamu ono tsoela ka ntle re koale Ntlo ena hobane batho bana ha ba na le lihlong.
HON. MINISTER L. RAKUOANE(Minister of Law and Justice): Ke lebohile Ntate. Ka lehlohonolo I am privileged hoba pela Honourable Senator, Morena oa ka oa Thaba-Tseka mona, hore ke mpe ke bale feela hore na ho tena ho thoe ho kenyoe number 4 na ke ho baneng tse tlang pele ho eona na-? ‘Me ke lintho tse ‘ne feela. Ke hantle ha batho ba media ba le teng ho se ke hoa etsoa khang ka litaba tsa bona.
What is now contained the Bill e leng hona ho ho thoeng e hlebe 4.
- There shall be the general principle on media and media councils Lesotho. There shall be diversity of media ownership and media contend in Lesotho including freedom oppress, hansard information and other communications which shall play interpret part in the development and democratic process of the country,that is the first principle e ngotsoeng ka mona e leng one.
- There shall be a media council of Lesotho which shall be an independent body that regulate the entire media industry.
- In performance of its function, the media council shall not be subjects to the control and directions of any person or authority. That is 3, ena e 4 e reng….
- Then the media council e tle e ahe le bo media ambos e be kenye media embossment and other offices. As an an independent ho latela 3. So it is an act of parliament e tla tla litekering tseno tse e kang ho thoe li fokolitsoe. That is all, so it is 4 principles tseo ke libalileng ho ekeletsa ena eo re e kopang ea hore media embossment e be teng.
Na ho thoe ha rena ho bopa a good media council act or bill ha e itints’itse, kapa folomente ea lona e leng lintho tsee tse ‘ne joale re ea mola mo re nang le nako ea to all the details. So the difference ea approach ea National Assembly kapa eo re e etsang propose is only the details not the principle.
This are the 4 principles, Morena oa ka, Litho tse Khabane le lona Litho tsa media tse teng mona. That is—joale mosebetsi ha e le mona re tla feta, ke hona hore ho lo ahoa Bill eno ke hona moo pere li mathang. Ho itsoe 18 months Bill tsena li be li le teng ho latela the proposal ena e re e khannang.
E leng ho re, ke hona moo hotla tentšoa haholo ka matla joale ha ho ahoa thata act or bill ea media council, so kannete ke lebohile ke ne ke re feela ke hlakise litaba tseno.
MR VICE-PRESIDENT: Order Hounarable Member( laugher), ke ne ke re ekaba u nts’o batla ho ipheta, e re ke fete.
The question proposed
HON.SENATOR K.L.K THEKO: Point of order, everything that we had proved e entsoe delete ho entsoe another, joale why are we still keeping on calling the Senate amendment because they totally have torn apart what we proposed and baetsa delete all and replace it with the following. Are we still construing as our, the Senate work hele! Ha e le tje Ntate, hauha motaung.
Ke hore ntho e ‘ngoe le e ‘ngoe eo re e ngotseng ba re delete it and then substitute it with this one, ho tšoana le ha re sa etsa letho Ntate. They are showing the power le lentsoe la bona le ka holimo, they have a final say according to the constitution as I have read section 18, ba etsa joalo they are demonstrating their muscles flexing it, ba batla ho bontša taba eno. Na is it right to call them Senate Amendments empa ba hlakotse tsa rona ba etsa Amend ka tsa bona, are we still calling them ours?
MR VICE-PRESIDENT: Ke tla kopa hore tafole e ntataise Marena aka.
HON. MINISTER L. RAKUOANE(Minister of Law and Justice): Vice-President, what we are dealing with on Senate Amendments(interrupted)… E le hore u ne u ile oa kena pele oa sisinya Sehlomathiso, joale re hlomathisa holim’a Sehlomathiso feela, ha u ka bala Cabanas ra bitsa batho bana ba Cabanas, that is also what we agreed.
Wena hona joale u se u nka feela ka ho balehang ka molao ka mona u re ho tatamoloa taba tsa Senate, athe harele Maseru Cabanas re ile ra re hare se ke ra etsang taba tse ngata embossment eane ha re e etseng tlas’a media council, ke lebohile ntate.
MR VICE-PRESIDENT: Order, Morena oa ka oa Thaba-Tseka kannete ke fuoa boeletsi ba hore mohlomong nna ke ntse ke bala ntho e ngotsoeng mona empa hoo e hlileng e leng ‘nete hore li-Amendment ke tsa National Assembly. No kea utloa hore na Hounarable Minister o re eng ‘me re ntse re buoa ntho e tšoanang, o re, ba entse Amend li-Amendments tsa Senate. E leng hore what in pressure on the table ke li-Amendment tsa National Assembly.
Eleng ho re, ho nepahetse Morena oa ka ha ho (interrupted)… Ke se ke amohetse hore ho ngolehile hampe, ke mokhona ke reng Ntate kea amohela hobane le ha re khutlela sehlohong mono, ho thoe leashed of passed National Assembly Amendments to Senate Amendments, eleng ho re ho salang e le Amendment mona ke ea National Assembly.
Eleng ho re Morena Khoabane kannete ntlha ea hau ea tsmaiso Ntate e ba eona . Next item. Oh ke ne ke beha taba ntšoarele Ntate.
HON. SENATOR.T.M. MOHALE: Point of order, u ntšoarele kannete, Ntate ho latela litaba tsena tseo Morena Khoabane a li buoang, ha ho ne ho lumellanoa, Ntate Rakuoane o tekena le Morena Khoabane, sepheho e ne e le hore ho nkuoe li-Amendments e le tsa Senate, e le hore re tsebe ho boloka nako. Ke hore li ne le nkuoa e le tsa Senate e le hore ha li tloha ka Senateng li ee Nationa Assembly li se li ea for Royal Assent.
Potso ea ka ke hore na haele mona re sebetsana le li-Amendments tsa National Assembly joale ke tsa National Assmbly tseo Senate se tlamehang hore se fane ka maikutlo ho tsona li boele li khutlele ka National Assembly, u bona ka e teng nako eo, e teng Ntate Rakuoane ea ho etsa lintho tseo?
Re ntse re sebetana le li-Amendments tsa National Assembly hona joale tseo ka mor’a tsona e tlo tla e ba Senate se shebana le tsona li boele ka National Assembly.
Potso ea ka ke hore na e be nako eo re bona e ka e tla ba teng Ntate, haholo ha re se ntse re sena nako? Ke hore ha se mokhoa oa ho re bitsetsa moo hape hore re etse deal le li-Amendments tsa National Assembly, e tle e re ha litla ka Senateng, li tle li re ke Senate se setisitseng mosebetsi, so ke ne ke mpa ke re na e be tafole e hae bone eka taba eo e re khutlisetsa morao hore kenya-kenya, e be ea Senate ka hore Senate taba tsena li shoelletse ho eona hobane ha e se e le tsa Ntationa Assembly, Ntate Motlatsi oa Prisidenthaesale tsa rona ‘me ntse re ea morao ho feta ka moo re ee ‘neng re ee teng Ntate. Ke ne ke re na e be taba ee ha e reise morao haholo Ntate, pele Ntlo eo e kopana Ntate?
MR VICE-PRESIDENT: Ohk o tla ikarabella feela ho re ho batlang hona joale ke concurrence. Honourable Minister, kena litabeng tsa Ntate Mohale Ntate.
HON. MINISTER L. RAKUOANE(Minister of Law and Justice): Ok Morena oa ka Setho se Khabane. A-a Ntate ehlile ho tla sebetsoa kajeno lena. Ke ntse ke bolella Morena Khoabane mona. His Majesity was a witness ha re ne re etsa sign taba ena eo ke tsebang hore ho na le moo ho nang le misunderstanding, all of us we have been frustrated, che, leha re lumela hore ba bang re iketselitse tsona empa ke ne ke re le rona kajeno lena e kanna ea ba we witness the Royal Assent, so re tla sebetsa hofihlela li ea, ha hona motho ea ka bang a etsa collapse this process ena. Re tla sebetsa li tsamaee li ee ‘me ha li fihla mane Bahlanka ba tla il’o li etsa paste li qale ho lokisoa, e le hore li tla sebetsa. Le tsoa le tsona kajeno lena hofihlela li feta that is why we are here. Ke lebohile Ntate ke u arabile Morena Setho se Khabane re ntse re li sebetsa ha li le tjena so li tla sebetsoa Ntate, hare qeteng tsena, still hoping hore there will be a bridge ea Ntate Clerk mohlomong le Madame President ha ba khutla batla tla ba le fa litaba hore na le se ntse le lokisa mohlomong se ntse le le pele hore na ho lokisoa joang ka tse ling. Tsena tse re li sebelitseng li ‘ne li tsamaee, that is the idea e lumellanoeng hore tsena tse teng li sebetsoe li ‘ne li tsamaee, then we come mohlomong ho tla tla ba tlo re hlalosetsa hona mane e be we put another additional work kapa re se ntse re tsoela pele ka eana ea additional work, no body stops you for putting another additional work, ha re qeta ho etsa ena.
MR VICE-PRESIDENT: Honourable Minister lula fatše.
Question proposed, put and agreed that National Assembly’s amendment 25 stand part of the bill.
The National Assembly finally request approval of the Senate on the fourth amendment which is under the heading appointments and removals.
MR VICE-PRESIDENT: Honourable Minister
HON.MINISTER L. RAKUOANE(Minister of Law and Justice): Ke lebohile Ntate Vice-President, sehlomathiso sena se teng e ne e le li-office tse ho neng ho itsoe li tla sebelisoa ke National Assembly ha re le Cabanas mane ra lumellana hore li se ke tsa hlola li sebelisoa ke National Assembly but in act of Parliament kapa ho ne ho itsoe transparent Parliamentary selection process e tla tla e etsoa determined ke electro Parliament mona, ‘me ho ile hoa fokoatsoa mabitso a mararo a neng a entsoe propose khale.
Ke ntse ke tseba le batho ba hlabehileng ba re na hobaneng ha re re re fane ka mabitso a mabeli re se re sa re a mararo, kannete ke lipuisano tse bileng teng. E leng hore li-office tseno pele invention ena etla mona ea NationalAssembly, e ne e hlile e re ke National Assembly e tla beha Litho tsena, but Cabanas le haeba mona-le-mane re ntse re sa etsa, ke ena e re tlisitse mona re teng moo e seng e buoa ka Parliamentary process instead of the National Assembly.
Ka hona ke re, ke kopa Ntlo e Khabane ea Senate hore e amohele Sehlomathiso sena so I move Ntate Vice-President (continued) hore ke fane ka benefit ea hore na what was the version of the Bill ha e ne e fihla mona,e leng 152 e neng e re, ka nako ena e re the Auditor General Public Protect Members of Human Rights, Commission Members of Anti-corruption and Public Service Commercial be appointed by the King acting upon the advice of The Prime Minister from the list of three names selected and submitted been by the National Assembly.
So e tlohile mono e se e buoa ka hore ho tla ba le act of Parliament e tla tla e lokisa a Parlimentary process ea hore na batho bana ba khethoa joang ba se ba bile ba le babeli, so I move.
Question proposed.
HON. SENATOR N. RAPAPA: Kea leboha Ntate Vice-President, ke ntse ke sheba litaba tsena hofihlela mona moo re teng, ‘me ka chebo ea ka kea bona hore Nationala Assembly ha e entse Lihlomathiso Senateng, Lihlomathisong tsa teng li ntse li amoheleha kaofela. We are almost going to get 100% ha ke sheba empa hau ka sheba the other way round, it does not get even 55% and that reflects hore na batho ba sebetsa ‘moho, ba tšepahalang le ba sa ts’epahaleng na ke bafeng ke kopa ke e fete eno.
Ha ke tla tabeng ena eo ho buuoang ka eona mona, Ntate Minister o bontšitsoe hore taba tsena li tla etsoa ke act of Parliament le mane moo eneng e ntse e le teng pele, hone ho ntse ho buuoe ka act of Parliament.
The difference ke hore ho ne ho thoe National Assembly e ka re e tla ba eona e tla etsa oversee that processes, joale mona ho thoe PrimeMinister o tla etsa adivice Motlotlehi ka batho bana, ka Act of Parliament.
Joale potso ea ka ke hore haeba Act of Parliament e so ka e ba teng, hona le batho ba tla hiroa moo kapa e tla ba ba tšoareli feela? If ba ka hiroa na who will oversee that transparent process e eang ho Tona-Kholo, hobane haeba Tona-Kholo e le eena a etsang establish that process ka bo eena, still e tla be e ntse e sa ee mane moo re buoang ka eona.
Ke ea kholoa tšabo ea ka ke hore before The Act of Parliament comes into place, e leng hore ha hona motho ea tla hiroa e tla ba ba etsang Act feela e le ho re that is the understanding, haeba hona le a ka hiroang pele Act of Parliament e ba teng na, who will establish that process ea hore e be fair because if eetsoa establish at Prime Minister’s office, I don’t have faith hore e tla sebetsoa hantle, kea leboha.
Kea kholoa ke sitoa ho tšehetsa pele ke fumana litlhaloso tsena tse ke buileng ka tsona, kea leboha Ntate Vice-President.
MR VICE-PRESIDENT: Honourable Minister, tlama Morena Khoabane ka morao, che molemong oa nako ke kopa u lule fatše re tle re li tlame kaofela.
Morena Khoabane.
HON.SENATOR K.L.K THEKO: Kea leboha Mohlomphehi oa ka, kea kholoa re le Business Committee re kalimile litaba ra ba ra re litaba tsena li hlopshoe tjena hore li tle li etse victory eo Bahlomphehi ba National Assemblyba tle ba e nke ba hlotse, joale re tle re nke taba re e behe ho bona ‘me re tle re be re tšoare le press conference ho joetsa sechaba sa Basotho hore na re sebelitse joang.
Mona hee Ntate Rakuoane, you know in your heart of hearts hore le iphosisa ka boomo hobane le shebile menyetla after elections but big question ke hore na, haeba le ka hloloa ke likhetho lona ba hanang taba tsena hare leka ho le lokisetsa tsona, hare batho ba polotiki,ha re hire batho, li etsoa ke batho ba teng, e leng ‘Muso oo e tla be e le oa letsatsi. Ha Morena Molimo o ka fetola poleiti eaba batho ba hopolang hore ba tl’o khethoa, ebe ha ho be joalo, ebe ba sala le bok’hak’hi bona, hobane this shows hore they are not prepared to take the change of status quo, ba rata ho etsa continue ka bolutu bona bo teng ba hore the Prime Minister should always have a… how long has Prime Minister wasted litaba tsa election ea batho ba eang mose, litabeng tsa Liofisi tsena tse boletsoeng, tsena tse kholohali le tse ling.
Baholo ba ka, ka ‘nete you are so hard in everything that we have proposed, you seemed to have said, no, delete it and replace it this way. It is like le re the Senate, even the NRA ha se letho hobane you are enjoying the last minute ea lona ka har’a Paramente. Haeba litaba tsena kaofela li sa fetolehe ka tsela ena, hoa supa hee hore le batla hore Lesotho le Basotho ba ‘ne ba utloe bohloko hobane you are doing this job for your own self-indulgence. Kea hlapanya this is for indulgence ea lona, it is not for people, ke ho re ke media, ke tsona Liofisi tsena tse kholohali tse nepahetseng, Public Protector, Auditor-General, Members of Human Rights Commission, Members of Anti-Corruption and Ethics, Members of Public Service Commission, you want to keep them for perere – ke ho re for motho ea tlang a tle a re ke ‘na ea ba khethileng.
Re ne re lekile ho ba tlosa e le hore re le tlose bok’hak’hing ba hore li entsoe ke li-body tse independent tse tla tseba ho etsa mosebetsi ka bokhabane lebitsong la sechaba sa Basotho. Ha esale re kena boipusong we have never had peace time. Ha esale e le liqabang tse bakoang ke eona mesebetsi ena. Ka ‘nete re soabile haholo, empa hee, we will embrace these issues, le tla thaba, le tla re le inyakalalitse le hlotse, but we need to de-campaign batho ba hanneng taba ena hore Lefats’e le ba tsebe hore na ke batho ba mofuta ofe. Basotho ba ba tsebe hore na ke batho ba mofuta ofe, le sebetsa ka tsela efe le ipapisitse ka’ng, Baholo ba ka, bana babo rona.
Ua tseba Lesotho Moshoeshoe o le bopile hore ebe re amanang kaofela, feela ha le fihla matleng a puso le fetola ts’obotsi, lea hloea, lea fetoha, ebile le tima batho ba bang mesebetsi. Re tl’ilo bona ha ho khethoa batho ka tsela e mpe ka har’a Liofisi tsena hobane ke seo Motlatsi oa Tona-Kholo boldly o ile sechabeng a re hothoe ho batloa Tona Kholo e joang, e se nang matla ana ao re neng re re re mo fokoletsa ‘ona. But we want litabeng tsa NRA re tseba hantle matla a senyekhe-nyekhe a entsoe abuse by the Prime Ministers tse fetileng. Joale o nka eka o amohuoa matla eena hobane o nahana hore e tla ba Tona Kholo. What if he fails? What if, le batho ba ntseng ba mo tlatsa le bona they fail, hobane ba bangata ba mahoo-hoo ba tl’o sala le ka ntle. Ke bone the political change le promise ea hore lintho li tl’o senyeha.
Mofokeng, ere nke ke u botse potso mona – ka ‘nete le uena ua tseba you started politics ka tsela e ileng ea nkhahla, ha u ne u bile u re batho ba etse declare their assets. Matsatsing ana u thotse tu! Mofokeng e motle, Lehooana l’abo Tlalane! Kapa u nts’u khalemeloa ke bona bana bao u ntseng u ba sebeletsa, hore u sk’a ’na bua ka lintho tseno, ke hona re tl’u ja mona! Ka ‘nete ke ne ke re u sale ka sebopeho seno u le motho. Even PFD does not stand for the values of this thing eo u e etsang. It is because you are in the coalition, maybe you have got people who tell you not to do the things the right way.
HON. AD. L. RAKUOANE: Ntate, ka ‘nete ke ne ke re ho bile le potso mona ea hore na ho tla etsahala ke hofe which was raised by Hon. Senator Prof. N. Rapapa. Re na le Clause 45 e buang ka Section 163, e leng existing Offices. O ne a re na hantle ho tla etsahala ke hofe ka Liofisi tsena, ea hore na ho na le the transition ka har’a Tokomane ena eo re sebetsang ka eona.
Joale Section 163 (1)
“A person who was before the Day, of coming into operation of this Constitution holding an Office established, shall continue to hold the Office in terms of this Constitution subject to:
(a) consistency and conformity with this Constitution.
(b) any amendment or repeal of legislation applicable to his or her Office.”
E leng ho re mona ho boleloa hore Liofisi tseno li tla tsoa li ntse li le teng, e se e ka ba taba ea hore na hoo Molao ona oa Motheo o buang ka oona na ho hole hakae, le Legislation e ts’ehetsang Lihlomathiso tsena na eona e re’ng. E leng ho re ke tsona lintho tseo e leng tsona tse tla be li sebetsa.
Empa (2) e re:
“Any person who under this Constitution or any existing law would have been required to vacate his or her Office at the expiration of any period shall within a period of six (6) months of the coming to operation this vacate his or her Office and may choose either, to retire from the Office or continue to serve subject to the appointment mechanism procedure provided under this Constitution or any other law.”
E leng ho re li-Provision li teng mona tse bonts’ang hore na Liofisi tse ntseng li le teng ho tla etsahala ke hofe ka tsona.
Joale ke mpe ke re ke sa arabe ka matla, empa ke nts’a maikutlo a makhuts’oanyane feela holim’a seo Morena oa ka a se buileng ka ho re ho behiloe Clause ena, ka lebaka la hore batho ba batla hore ba ’ne ba khethe batho. Ka ‘nete ke re Molao ona oa Motheo o laela hore there will be fair, competitive merit based. E leng ho re even an act of Parliament eo eona e ka bang letsutla can be challenged hore that act – that is why Constitution e leng ka holimo ho Act, eba ho tla etsoa Act e matsutla, hobane joale teng ho ntse ho utloahala hore batho ba tla hiroa ho latela the Act. Haeba the Act e sa etse comply with the fairness, competitive and merit based and transparent, e tla be ele hore e tsoa tlaase the Constitutional principle as laid here.
E leng ho re ‘na ke re Constitution eno haeba motho a il’o etsa molao, hobane lintho tseno tseo re ka llang ka tsona ka hore mang-mang o batla ho beha batho ba hae le ho etsa joalo, o tla be a li etsa ka molao o tla be o entsoe, mohlomong maikutlo e ne e ka ba hore molao ono ho ka ’na ha tsoa o khopameng. This principle laid here ha e li thula, ehlile ho tla sebetsoa ka se nepahetseng.
E leng ho re ho e etsa personalise ka ho re ke mang-mang ea tla fumana molemo ka ‘nete che, e tla be e se ele litaba feela. Kea utloisisa hore ho na le maikutlo a batho ba itseng na ‘Muso o ka tingoa bokae, ke ne ke sa batle ho etsa khang ka tsona litaba tseno. Ke ne ke re ‘na ke itulele Molaong hore na what is the Constitutional principle eo re e kopang hore e fetisoe, eo motho ea ka e tsoang tlaase leha a etsa Act of Parliament, hobane ke ne ke hlile ke nahana hore ho tla thoe, re e’o etsa, ‘me re tla be re se teng, joalo ka ha ho ntse ho cho ba bang mohlomong, ho tla be ho na le bano ba bang ba tla be ba khethiloe ke sechaba, le bona ba tlameha hore ba etse Act e nepahetseng.
E leng ho re ‘na ke kopa feela hore re amohele this Act. It is very important and it is going to be tested hore le the Acts of Parliament this time li tlameha ho etsoa. Ka lehlohonolo hape eona Provision ena e itse ka likhoeli tse 18 li be li entsoe, ele hore motho a se ke a ipha monyetla oa hore a re ha a qete, joale o ntse a batla ho tsoela pele ka batho ba hae. It is very clear hore li sebetsoe ka nako e itseng.
We have never had a ‘Provision’ ka har’a Molao oa Motheo e bolelang hore na le melao e etsoe ka nako e itseng, eseng feela tumellano ea machaba, empa the whole Constitution e bolela hore melao e itseng e be e entsoe ka nako e itseng. Ke ne ke re re tla be re ntse re le teng leha e-ba re le bashebelli kantle, Morena oa ka, uena mohlomong ke lumela u tla be u ntse u le teng ka mona, re le karolo ea ho etsa melao eno eo transition ena e buang ka eona, e bolelang hore ho na le melao e ne e entsoe ka nako efe.
Ka ‘nete ke ne ke re ke utloile li-concern, empa kea amohela hore ha re lumeleng hore ho ntse ho na le lintho tse ntle tse etsoang propose tseo ke lumelang hore these principles ha ho na motho ea tla li hlola habonolo, haeba ho na le motho ea nahanang hore a ka tsoa the principles as set out by the Constitution, ‘me re lumellana ka eona.
HON. SENATOR S.B. SEEISO: Potso. Ntate, ke kopa ka uena ke botse potso ena with all sincerity, ke botse Letona le Khabane hore na throughout the entire process up until, the collapse of this Bill and the process that came after ena ea ho leka ho tlisa maikutlo a Matlo a mabeli to the centre field, ebe joale re tl’o lebelloa hore re je hona hoo ho thoeng re ho je. Are you sleeping well? Ua robala bosiu ke ntho ee eo re leng ho eona hona joale? ‘Na I am having sleepless nights, hobane I am saying we have sold the soul of this country, the soul of Basotho down the train.
Litaba tseo re ntseng re li bua mona kapa tseo ho ntseng ho thoe re li etse, ke botsa Letona le Khabane, empa re ntse re ipotsa, Ntate le uena ha u lutse mono kea u bona ha u sa le monate, ke hobane ha u phomole hantle bosiu, u na le ho lora, ebe u etsa lerata. Potso ea ka ka ‘nete ke ho re na Letona le Khabane when all the efforts have been put into a process that will salvage, and bring to some closer conclusion to what the nation has professed and proclaimed ka lipitso tse bileng teng, ho pota naha ena kaofela, sechaba se buile sa re se hloka hona le hoane.
Mona moo re leng teng hona joale, when we agree and when we say are passing – what is your soul saying to this nation? What is your soul saying to your grandchildren, hobane mona moo re leng teng rona ba bang e ka ‘na eaba re se re le hosane, u tla utloa ho se ho ntse ho thoe, ‘tsamaea hantle, motsoalle’. Re tl’o siela litloholo tsa rona eng ka har’a kenya-kenya ee eo ho ntseng ho thoe re e je hona joale na?
HON. AD. L. RAKUOANE: Kea leboha, Ntate. Ke tla qetella ka eno ea boroko mohlomong qetellong. Ke mpe ke re, Bahlomphehi ba ka, National Assembly e fetisitse more than 50% ea litaba tseo re neng re tsoa ka tsona Maseru Cabanas. They are there, they can be investigated. It is around 60% of that. Ha u fana ka maikutlo a hore the whole thing, ‘me le tsena tse ling tse 40 tse setseng ke tsena tseo ho bileng le ruling eo rona, leha e-ba e sa re thabise, but it has been made. Ke eona e entseng 40% of some of the issues that were raised hore ebe ha lia etsoa.
Ke re lihlomathiso tsona tsena tseo re neng re buile ka tsona tse ling ke ile ka fa Morena mona pampiri eo ke bonts’ang hore na ho lihlomathiso tse neng li sisintsoe na ke tse kae tseo National Assembly e li entse’ng, ‘me ha e li entse li le joalo, ha lia khutlisetsoa ka mona.
Ke ne ke re maikutlo a hore hobane re tlisitse lintlha tse ‘ne, litaba tsane tse ling li lahliloe, e-e, li teng mona, re na le pampiri ea hore li fetile tse ling tsa tsona. Tseo re hlotsoeng ke tseo ho itsoeng there were no amendments on them on the 13th July, and therefore, le ke ke la tseba ho ea ho tsona. Tsohle tse neng li le teng ka har’a li-Amendment tsa la 13 were considered.
Ke ka hona ke re’ng 60% of the proposal tse neng re li entse Maseru Cabanas have been passed by the National Assembly. Tsena tse khutlileng ho concurrence ke hobane ho na le wording e ncha ho tsona. That is why the concurrence was sort on these issues, but tse ling li teng, li ntse li fetile ka mane. E leng ho re ha se hore litaba tsohle tse builoeng ha lia feta, ntle le tseno tse entsoeng overrule.
Ke nka hore, ee, I partially sleep, I partially do not sleep hobane ke ntse ke utloisisa hore ho na le litaba tseo re neng re tlameha hore ebe re li entse. Eona Ruling eno ea hore li-amendment le li-bill ke lintho tse peli, tse fapakaneng, we do not understand, but we are bound by the Rules of the House hore ebe the 40% were not able to transact. Ke ena eo e itseng there is still a Meeting oo re ntseng re leka ho bonts’a hore that 40% (noise from the floor…) ke ne ke re that 40% eo ke itseng e setse ke eona eo ke itseng Mr. Clerk and Madam President would come and report.
Che oele!, re se ke ra phokhotsoa haholo kapa ka tokhotsoa haholo.
HON. SENATOR S.K. MASUPHA: Ebile kea leboha, Mohlomphehi, ke se ke tseba ho etsa joalo.
Ke ne ke rata hore ke botse Letona la ka hore na ka mane ka National Assembly na e ne e se uena Mohlomphehi ea neng a etsa pilot hore Li-Clause tsena tsa Senate, ho be le tse hlakoloang le hore ho be le tse nkoang ho latela Hansard e teng eo ke e ts’oereng matsohong mona.
HON. SENATOT J.A. MOTS’OENE: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi Motlatsi oa Madam President.
Ke mpa ke ipotsetsa Mohlomphehi Letona le Khabane, ke utloa a bua ka taba ea Procedure ba ipapasitse ka Li-Regulation tsane tse Khabane tsa Ntlo e Khabane ea National Assembly.
Na ka ‘nete ha re ea ho Ntate Motlotlehi, re ne be re kopa hore Paramente e buloe re ne re re, re il’o sebetsa re ipapisitse le Procedure ela, Mohlomphehi Motlatsi oa Madam President, eo Mohlomphehi Letona a buang ka eona kapa re ne re re Basotho ba buile ‘me ha ba buile litaba tseo ba buileng ka tsona ke tsena e leng The Eleventh Amendment to the Constitution, ‘me re tla sebetsana le litaba tsena?
Joale bona Bahlomphehi Litho tsa Ntlo ea Bakhethoa ba Sechaba ba re, “ae, e ile ea re ha Paramente e ne e koaloa eaba rona re ts’oere hona, ha re sebetseng hona.”
Hana taba ee e reng ho Ntate Motlotlehi? Ua tseba, Mohlomphehi Motlatsi oa Madam President, I so wish hore litaba tsena tseo ba li hanang e tle e be molaetsa o il’o kena likelellong le lipelong tsa Basotho re tle re bone hore na ba tla ba khetha. I so wish hore li tle li kene, ‘na, Mohlomphehi?
MR. VICE-PERESIDENT: Ke lebohile ha u s’o bile u lutse Ntate, ke ne ke bona hore ke se ke le tsietsing e ts’abehang (laughter).
Ke ne re ke hape ke bone hore lipotso li ntse li ba ngata. Ke ne ke nahana hore re fihlile moo re tla qetella ntho ena, re tle ke re utloe Report e tlang ka Madam President le Ntate Clerk re tle ke re utloe hore na Mohlomong ha re fumane Likarabo tsa Litaba tsena tseo re ntseng re li bua.
Che, e ne e le kopo feela eo ke neng ke re ke tle ke e etse.
HON. ADV. L. RAKUOANE: Rea leboha, Ntate, e re ke qale ka Morena oa ka oa Lioli. E-ea Ntate on the night ea li 13, I did move hore Lihlomathiso tse itseng tsa Senate li amoheloe, tse ling li se ke tsa amoheloa ‘me ha ke lumele hore ha ho ne ho etsoa Lihlomathiso mona – ‘me tse ngata re ile ra fumana hore e ne e se Lihlomathiso tseo li neng li ikamahanya le hoo re neng re ileng ra leka ho bua kae-kae hape. E ne e le Lihlomathiso tse ileng tsa etsoa feela.
E leng ho re tse ling re ne re lumellana le tsona, tse ling ra li hana. Ehlile ke ‘nete tse ling ke ne ke sisinya hore tsena li amoheloe, tse ling li se ke tsa amoheloa. Hansard e cho joalo ka la 13 empa ha u ka mamela tsena tsa morao, nako ena kaofela hore ho ile hoa buuoa tsena Maseru, u utloe ho ntse ho thoe “Order se ka ‘na oa bua lintho tsa Maseru” re ntse re thijoa mane ke Litho tse ling tse chong joalo.
E leng ho re ha re tsoa Cabanas we were singing a different language empa le joalokaha u cho, e ne e ntse e se tsona kaofela joalokaha u cho hore ho ne ho ntse ho thoe tsena, ‘me rea tseba hore akere ka nako e ‘ngoe e ee e re le hona Senate moo joalokaha Morena Khoabane a ntsa cho, le ne le boetse le re le khutlisa litaba tsa NRA tse ling re ne re sa lumellane ha li khutlisoa!
Na nka makalloa kajeno ha ho se ho thoe, “ae hobaneng ha u ne u ntse u re ha u lumellane le tsona?” Ha ho na nako eo nkileng ka pata tseo re sa lumellaneng ka tsona. E leng ho re, ha ho na nako eo nkileng ka etsa mislead the House ka re hona ke lumellana le hona. Ha ke ne ke ile ka hanana le hona kae-kae, haholo ka nako eno ea li 25 empa hona joale nako ena kaofela u tla fumana moo ho entsoeng khang, ho ntse ho thoe tlohang mona ka ntho ena ea Cabanas– e le ha re etsa likhang empa ke re tse ngata tsa tsona li fetile majority a tsona leha ho ne ho ntse ho e-na le likhang tseno li le joalo.
Ke khutlela ho Morena oa ka oa Leribe, ke qetella ho eena. Setho se Khabane Morena oa ka, Morena oa Likhoele represented the College of Chiefs kahar’a Council of State. We were told kamor’a hore re etse Tumellano ena, e be re Bill ha e eo hobane ke hona moo litaba li leng hona teng.
We were told the Bill has passed! Ke cho a leng teng. Rona nakong eo re neng re etsa assume, nakong eo re neng re ngola taba, re ne nka hore Bill has not passed but we were told that the Bill has passed!
Ke mokhoa ona ke reng ke cho a le teng because I was … ke Liakhente tse teng bo….
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Honourable Minister! Honourable Minister!
HON. ADV. L. RAKUOANE: …ke hore che, ke leka ho manolla taba ena eo ho thoeng ke hobositse Motlotlehi while kamorao ho etsa Litumellano re bolelletsoe kapele ho Council of State hore Bill has passed.
Ke e ‘ngoe ea the change e ncha feela ke re … ha e complete, ‘me it is part of the Bill, which we were told .. that under no certain terms and never that the Bill has passed. That is why batho ba bang ba ileng ba fumana monyetla oa ho koropetsa ka ho etsa interpret ka hore le tlameha hore le sebetsane le Lihlomathiso feela.
So, ke re ke history e teng Bahlomphehi ba ka. Ena ea hore ka mokhoa o mokhuts’oanyane ea hore ke Rakuoane ea neng a thetsa, o ne a etsa joang, ae! ka ‘nete e etsahetse hona moo rona re neng re tla le tumellano hobane pele ho bitsoa rona re ne re na le understanding ea hore the state of the Bill… but once we approach that Council ka hore we were told that the Bill has passed. Ke e ‘ngoe ea li-game changer in terms of understanding tseo re bileng le tsona pele and there is nothing to do le ‘na ke le motho.
Ke ne ke re ka ‘nete ke…
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: U be mokhuts’oanyane morena oa ka.
HON. SENATOR R.P.L. PEETE: Haholo, Ntate. Kea leboha, Ntate Vice-President.
Ke ne ke re ke botsa Ntate Minister. Re bua ka taba ea procedure eo re bonang e le eona e re fang bothata but procedure e tsoaloa ke Li-Standing Order. Li-Standing Order potso ea ka ke hore na li etsuoa ke mang, li etsoa amend ke mang?
Ke hobane rona ka mona ka Senate …
HON. ADV. L. RAKUOANE: Ke ne ke re u kenyelletse le ho li etsa suspend.
HON. SENATOR R.P.L. PEETE: .. ok le ho li etsa suspend. Ka mona ka Senateng, rona Li-Standing Order li etsoa ke Ntlo ena e Khabane. Le li etsa amend, li etsoa ke eona Ntlo ena e Khabane and ebile re e ntseng eona ntho eno e le hore re etse fit-in mosebetsi ona oo Ntate Motlotlehi a re ts’epetseng ona oa Basotho hore o tsebe o phethahale ka nepo. Lona le setisoa ke eng haeba le iketsetsa tsona ntle lehaeba lona le li etsoatsoa ke somebody else who is not in Lesotho?
E ‘ngoe hape eo ke sa e utloisising hantle ke hore kea utloa hore u ne u sa tsebe hore Bill e fetile le ‘na che ha ke tsebe Bill e fetile. Ke hore my understanding e tla ba hore na re etsa Li-Amendment tsa Bill e se fetile? Ke hoo re re reng ha re cho joalo?
Haeba re re Bill e fetile, can you amend Bill e seng e fetile? Kapa Li-Amendment tsee, tseo re ntseng re li etsa ke tsa eng? What are we doing here re ka etsa Li-Amendment tsa Bill e seng e fetile?
Kutloisiso ea ka, Ntate Khoabane ke hore re ke ke ea etsa Amend e seng e le ka ntle, e se e le Molao o s’o fetile.
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Ae, Morena oa ka oa Mats’ekha. Lintho tse ling tsona ka ‘nete, ke bosoasoi tse ka reng eona eno eo u e buang.
Che, tsoela-pele Honourable Minister.
A VOICE FROM BEHIND: He is now misleading the House!!!
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Ea hore Bill e fetile eona, kea pheta ke bosoasoi.
HON. ADV. L. RAKUOANE: Ke re rona ha re etsa mosebetsi ona, re ne re le batho ba lumelang hore the Bill has not passed but there was a distinction ea hore ho na le Bill e fetileng, ho ntseng ho salletse ke ho qeta Lihlomathiso tsa eona.
A VOICE FROM BEHIND: No, how can it pass….
HON. ADV. L. RAKUOANE: Ke mokhoa ona ke reng le Lihlomathiso tsena tseo re reng re entsoe bismearch ka tsona, ke ne ke re Bahlomphehi ba ka, this is not my own…
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Ke ne ke re Bahlomphehi ba ka, lea tseba re lokela ho mamela Mohlomphehi Letona ka hloko e kholo!
HON. ADV. L. RAKUOANE:…le Lihlomathiso tsena tseo le bonang re tlile ka tsona on your Amendments, ke hobane re ne re bolela hore re ke ke ra tseba ho ea Litemaneng tsane tse ling tsa Bill, eo ho thoeng e teng so that unfortunately ho etsahetse tlhaloso eno.
Joale ke araba taba ea hau ea Li-Standing Order. Li-Standing Order li etsoa ke Ntlo, li hlomathisoa ke eona ebile rona re li etsa suspend.
Ke ile ka etsa Motion ha ho s’o thoe re ke ke ra etsa ka lebaka la Standing Order eaba ke re haeba Standing Order se joalo, ha se tle ke se e tse Amend.
A FROM BEHIND: Ha le li etse Amend keng hona joale hee?
HON. ADV. L. RAKUOANE: Ke re eaba ehlile ke ngola Motion o joalo, eaba ka Motion turn down again Morena oa ka.
Ke lintho tse etsahetseng. It has turned down ka eona taba eo ea hore li-part tsa Bill li kae-kae, ho tloloa Molao, ho etsoa joang-joang so, eaba ka ‘nete that is where we ended, ‘me taba eno ha se taba e ka tla nkuoang ke ‘na ke le mong. All the Leaders tse teng National Assembly we are entitled ho liteko tsona tsena, le liteko tsa ka tsa hore ke re ke hlomathisa kapa ke etsa suspend Li-Standing Order…..
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Honourable Minister! ke kopa hore re sebeletseng hle…
HON. ADV. L. RAKUOANE: …ae, ka ‘nete ke qetile ke lebohile, Ntate Vice-President, ke qetile litaba tsa ka.
HON. SENATOR K.L.K. THEKO: Ke ne ke re in the heart of Minister’s hearts, o oa tseba he is very conversant ka taba ea tsamaiso ea Molao. He can’t stand here and tell us hore o joetsuoe ke Bahlanka kapa batho ba neng ba isitse message ono ho Motlotlehi hore, Motlotlehi Khosi tseba hore re se re fetisitse Molao joale we cannot accept Amendments but Honourable Minister…
HON. ADV. L. RAKUOANE: ..ae Li-Amendment tsona ho itsoe li sebetsoe.
HON. SENATOR K.L.K. THEKO:… Ke re na li ka sebetsa joang Molao o se o fetile? Ha o fetile ke ha o le joang?
Ha ke re o etsoa assent ke King, e be o oa feta? Kapa at what stage is this Law hona joale tjee, ha u bua tjee because ke re ka ‘nete ea Molimo khale u ba Minister a Makala a mangata, u tsamaisa Molao ‘me u oa tseba hore ha u re Molao o fetile u bolelang!
Hona joale tjena Ntate u its’irelletsa ka ntho e sieo hle. With due respect Ntate hobane ke re ho uena, u ke ke be oa re Molao o tsamaisitsoeng ke uena, uena you were oblivious ka hore o fetile kapa o ne o se o fetile.
How can you say that e le uena motho ea tsamaisitseng Molao oo? How can you tell this House hore u entse joalo? Ha se ntho e lumellehang hle, Mofokeng e motle. Ka ‘nete se ke oa re thetsa. Mona joale u oa re thetsa straight.
Ho ke be hoa thoe ho joetsitsoe Motlotlehi maka ano (ke batlile ke le leka) (laughte…) ke ne ke sa batle hore u leshano.
U ke ke oa re Motlotlehi o bolelletsoe ke who from National Assembly. Is it the Speaker? Who is it, ea isitseng Molao ho Motlotlehi hore e be re re o fetile Mofokeng?
Mofokeng ‘mamela hle. Ke ne ke re Ntate re lumellane hore re nke taba ena re e behe joalokaha Mong’aka a re eno ke papali. He can’t say a Law e ntseng e tla ka Lihlomathiso ka morao, e be u re bolella hore ho thoe li fetile e be you take that u le a Lawyer, u le a knowledgeable person who has been in prior Parliaments for many years. Ha ho thoe Molao o fetile ke ho r’eng Ntate?
A VOICE FROM BEHIND: Point of Order.
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Adding point of order, on point of Order? (laughter…)
A VOICE FROM BEHIND: Ke cho joalo, Ntate oa ka.
HON. SENATOR K.L.K. THEKO: Am I doing something wrong with that?
HON. ADV. L. RAKUOANE: ..Theohang ha ho na taba, re tla ‘ne re e bone. Le ho e isa ho Metsing ke mokhoa oo ….
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Ke mpa ke etsa boipiletso feela ba hore u eme ka Ntlha ea Tsamaiso feela Morena oa ka oa Leribe, ke utloile have a sit, ke utloe hore na Morena oa ka oa Likhoele o r’eng. Joale ke kopa hore hle, re sebeletseng hore re fumane Tlaleho ea …
HON. SENATOR L. SEEISO: Ntate, ua tseba ke ee ke ts’abe ha ho ka thoe Council of State. Ha re bolelloe hore karolo e kenyelletsang Motlatsi oa Tona-Kholo o ne a le siko joaloka ka mehla.
Ntate Metsing o ne a le teng. Ntate Motanyane mohlang ho buuoang litaba tsena o ne a le siko. Joale ke re, Mohlomphehi ha ho na ntho ea hore ho ka thoe Molao o fetile, o s’o ka o feta. Taba ena e ntse e tla tabeng eane eo re reng Ntate Motlatsi oa President, e tlang hore na batho ba neng ba liehisitse Molao ona, na ke Senate kapa ke National Assembly na?
Question that Amendment 4 of National Assembly stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Amendment 4 e ema e le karolo ea Sets’oants’o sa Molao.
Re tla phomotsa Ntlo metsotso e ka bang mehlano hore re fumane Tlaleho e tsoang Palace.
Suspension
The House was Accordinlgy suspended for 5 minutes
IN THE COMMITTEE
MR. CHAIR PERSON: Honourable Minister Lihlomathiso tsena tsa Ntlo ea Senate re se re ile ra li qoka ra li shebisana re le Ntlo. Hoa hau u re lumelle feela hore e-be a procedural something hore re li etse. E le hore u hle u li otle.
HON. MINISTER L. RAKUOANE (Minister of Law): Empa ho buoa feela mona ka ho lokisa taba ea matla a Motlotlehi le ho hlophisa litaba tsa hae e le Commander.
Ea bobeli ke hore, ho na le taba eo ho thoeng ke application eo ho thoeng feela ke Consultation le College of Chiefs. Tona-Kholo a se papaele feela haeba ho ka ba le litaba tsa application. Re hopotsanang feela mono joalo ka ha u chulo.
E hlahlamang ke eane ea bo li-Clerk, ‘me kannete le tsebe e ne e se e fetisitsoe. Ho ho cha ke taba ena ea ho bitsoa General, feela hee (Interrupted).
MR. CHAIR PERSON: Honourable Minister ehlile ke ‘nete hore ho na le tse fetileng le tse sa fetang, feela e tla re luba. Ha u ka batla hore re… (Interrupted).
HON. MINISTER L. RAKUOANE: Che! Ke ne ke re lona you are entitled to make summary tsa lona hobane empa re sa kenya taba ena ea Secretary General. Tsena tse ling le eona ena ea Legislation as is ke hore, ke le hopotsa hore le joint sitting e ne e sa feta, ke hore ka hona kea sisinya hape. Empa ke etsa tse ling hore li utloahale ha li ke ke tsa etsoa consider hobane li se li fetile e se e le karolo ea record pele. Tseo e seng record ke ntse ke tlameha ho ba honest le teng.
MR. CHAIR PERSON: Honourable Minister have a sit. Taba eo u e hlalosang ke mokhoa ona re itseng empa re etsa procedure feela. Tse seng li ananetsoe, it is fine. Feela ka mona re tla li etsa e le amendments tse neng li entsoe ke Senate procedurally re li fetise le rona.
HON. MINISTER L. RAKUOANE: Joale ke leka ho baleha taba eno joalokaha ke tla ke etsa joalo, o ne a ntse a li hana hape mane, athe e ne e le hantle hore ke li shebe hore na ke lifeng tseo. Hobane joale re boetse hona mane hape, ha a li joetsoa, li ntse li tlameha ho tsamaisoa.
Empa leha ho le joalo ke lebohile ke ne ke re hee alteration re na le Formation of Coalition, Ministers hore na ba be ba kae. Impeachment of the Prime Minister, ho itsoe ke hopotse subject matter. Office of the Paramount Chief, National Planning Commission, Local Authorities, Public Debts, ebe litaba tsa Judiciary tse lekolang botho.
Foreign Service eona ha e ea feta. Ebe ea ho qetela Media e ntse e tšoana le ena eo ke qetang ho e fetisa. Tseo le tsona oa utloa ke re ke otluoe feela.
MR. CHAIR PERSON: Honourable Minister.
HON. MINISTER L. RAKUOANE: Media approval ke tseo, ‘me e se e-ba schedule homatla a Marena. So, kea sisinya ntate hore Amendments ke tseo, Komiti e Khabane e li shebe ntate, che ke ntse ke emetse eane eaka Ntate Molula-Setulo.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Ntle le haeba ke ’na ea ntseng a lahleha, mohlomong ha kea utloa ha u bua ka Impeachment of the Prime Minister. Ok ae Ntate ha ke na le khang Ntate eka ‘na eaba ha kea utloa.
HON. MINISTER L. RAKUOANE: Tse ling re ntse re qeta ho li etsa ka morao ho Public Debt mona, li ea feta ebe hare qeta ho li fetisa ebe ho thoe li ea feta hobane, athe hoja monyetla u ne u le teng ebe ho thoe ha re fetiseng tsane tseo re qetang ho li etsa. Haholo ha e le word per word, hore ha li fihla mane ho se ho tla thoe empa re ka re le haeba re sa lumellane le National Assembly empa re sebelisitse ntho eno… (Interrupted)
MR. CHAIR PERSON: Order Honourable Minister. Ke re kaha re se re entse lintho tseo re reng re nolofatsa tšebetso, ke utloa eka ntho eo u e etsang suggest ke ntho e nepahetseng, hore kaha tsena tsona li fetile ha re boela re li hlahisa mane re ile ra li etsa subject to scrutiny again. Ha re etse avoid taba eo, ke cho joalo ke re tseo tse ‘ne ehlile ho ea nepahala hore re se li fetise e le tsona. Joale re tataise hore na re etse joang.
HON. MINISTER L. RAKUOANE: Ke re lintlha tseo ebile ha li ngata hobane eane ea appointment ea Senate ha e eo ka mona. Which means it is well and good, ha ho na e thulanang le eona. Li peli feela tseo ehlileng ke bonang, ebile li tharo, ke Public Debt, ke Media joale ebe ena ea appointments hobane ke bona li ntse li tšoana.
Eona ena ea appointments tsa ho qetela li ntse li tšoana. E le hore tsona could be deleted, hobane ke tsona tsena tseo re qetang ho li fetisa tsena tse tharo li tsoe from this text, ebe tsena tse ling kaofela tseo ebang li salletse tsona we take them back, ke hore li tsamaee li le joalo le tsona, e le tsona li-amendments, tsena tse ling le se le li entse on the National Assembly… (Interrupted).
MR. CHAIR PERSON: For the record, ke Public Debt.
HON. MINISTER L. RAKUOANE: Ebe eane ea 152 (Interrupted), le media, tsena tse ling kaofela hoa tsona they are in order li etsoe submit, le ea ka e ’ne e tle ke se ke ka koalloa e sa fihla.
MR CHAIR PERSON: Ntlha ea Tsamaiso feela ka Mohlomphehi ka Morena oa ka oa Leribe.
HON.SENATOR J.A MOTS’OENE: Kea leboha Mohlomphehi Molula-setulo ka appointment e ncha ena. Empa ke re feela ho uena Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo, haeba litaba tsena ho thoe re behe tsane, Public Debt and 152, na hoo ho bolela hore ha se litaba tseo re reng li-amendments tsa Ntlo ee ke tsee tseo re li fetisang hobane ekare re amohela li-amendments from the National Assembly joale le ka mona re ea fetisa li’a nyoloha.
Ke re na ha ho betere hore, ha ke batle le ho ea mono moo ke neng ke ea teng, feela joale ke eena Honourable Minister moo a neng a hlalosa. O re Bill e fetile, che haaa… empa ke re feela rona re le Ntlo Mohlomphehi Molula-Setulo re mpe re fetise li amendments tsena joalokaha li ile ka tsela eona ena. Re tle re tsebe ho utloa hore na ba re’ng. Bona ba tle ba il’o li lokisa feela ba re re tšoere tokomane ea Senate ke ena ka lihlomathiso tsa Ntlo, feela re bona hore re se re sebelitse 1,2,3.
MR CHAIR PERSON: Kutloisiso ea ka e ne e ts’oana le ea hau hantle qalong hofihlela joale ha a ntlhalosetsa hore tsena li se li fetile. Ha re boela re li etsa, ke duplication ea mosebetsi o seng o entsoe li se li bile li amohetsoe, li bile li qeta ho etsoa le ho ananeloa le ke rona. Prof!
HON. SENATOR N.RAPAPA: Ntate Molula-Setulo ke ne ke re feela page 6 moo, mona mo ho buuoang ka Formation of Coalition Government.
Question proposed that the Senate amendments stand part of the Bill
HON. SENATOR PROF. N. RAPAPA: Kea leboha Ntate Molula-Selulo ke ne ke re page 6 moo Formation of Coalition Government, re ne re ile ra etsa.. empa e sa ngoleha hantle mona hore ho fuoe party number 1 monyetla oa 7 days. Ka morao ho fuoe number 2 le eona 7 days, ka morao ho mono ebe ho’a buleha, any other party e ka etsa Coalition Government ‘me li tla fihla li re khaqa! hantle kamor’a 21 days after which e ka bang fresh elections.
E leng hore ena eo ho buuoang ka the third if 7 days pass re ne re ile ra re e tlohe mono re ne re ile ra re, and, ke hore ka mora hore re re with second number highest number of six shall have 7 days to form a government eaba re re, and if it fails any party shall be given a chance to form a government within the next 7 days. Li tla be li etsa 21 days kaofela hantle li le joalo.
Ea pele e fuoa monyetla, number 2 e fuoa monyetla, monyetla oa boraro o fuoa batho bohle.
MR. CHAIR PERSON: Ho oo oa boraro e se e le ha bo je?
HON. SENATOR PROF. N. RAPAPA: E oa boraro e se e le ha bo je ’me li tla be li fella ka hara 21 days eo. E leng hore sentence eane ea ho qetela eona e ntse e sala e le joalo, e re if the expiry of 21 days, there is no party that will be able to form a government. Ho tla etsoa dissolution ea Paramente ebe ho bitsoa fresh elections.
Ka mokhoa oo ho ngotsoeng ka teng Ntate, e ne e re ho tla fuoa party ea pele, ea bobeli, ea boraro joale ebile ho buuoa le ka any other party ho buuoa ka 21 days. Ntho tsena ha u ka li bala ha li kopane hantle hobane li tla etsa 28 days joale.
MR CHAIR PERSON: Empa Prof, re ne re re, re bale re re kamora 7 days eno ea bobeli ho thoe any party not mentioned above shall be given chance to form a government.
HON. SENATOR N. RAPAPA: Ha re ke re e bale Ntate, re tle re e bale hantle u tsebe ho e utloisisa. Re hle re e qale hantle mane
1. In the case of no single party commands the majority party to form a government, the party with highest number of seats shall form the government within 7 days.
2. Failing which the party with the second highest number with seats shall have 7 days to form a government, ke point number 2.
Joale eaba e re and the third, ke hona mo re reng the third ha e hlokahale, ebe re se re re, and if no government is formed, any party shall be given a chance to form a government within 7 days. Ke tokiso feela, feela ea lumellana eona.
MR. CHAIR PERSON: Ntate Hlaele.
HON. SENATOR M. HLOAELE: Kea leboha mohlomphehi, e hlakile kea e utloa ke se ke mpa ke re feela mokhoa oa ho e etsa ho ee ea boraro e tla ba ofe? E tla ba ho hoelehetsa feela hore ‘anyone’ the modalities tsa ho e etsa e tla ba ofeng?
MR CHAIPERSON: Re ne re se re e arabile but ka lebaka la ho se be Lets’ekha u tla lieha ho utloa, re ne re se re itse ke ha boje. Joale ha e se e le ha bo je ha re sa ea ka tlhatlhamano ea rona ea… le ngoana ha a le teng, ea hore na o entsoe ke mang ha se taba, ha a ee naheng. Morena oa ka oa Matsieng le oa Lioli. Ntate Rakuoane u ka re lethonyana, Ntate Hloaele o ntsa belaela tabeng eno hore na o utloa eka ho tla sebetsoa joang.
HON. MINISTER L. RAKUOANE: Che kutloisiso ke hore ha re sebetsa ka makhethe ehlile ho ntse ho tlameha ho ke ho be le an act ea li-procedure tsena e leng hore even though the Constitution just lists them out haeba li–officers li teng mona tse tsebang hore ho tloha ha taba tsena li qeta ho feta ha ba na robala bosiu le mots’eare, che leha ena ke nahana hore e se e tla bonoa ke Paramente e tlang but there will be an act e tla tla e hlalosa hantle litaba tseno.
Ke nahana the spirit of the Constitution is very clear empa hee I think we can still consider an act of Parliament. Ke sitoa ho e hlalosa ke bona eka the best way ke hore feela ho il’o etsoa an act eo ehlile e tla thusa li-procedure tseno, that will be my response Ntate Molula-Setulo.
MR. CHAIRPERSON: Ntate Ra-Lioli
HON. SENATOR S. G. MASUPHA: Kea leboha Mohlomphehi Vice-President, ke ne ke lumela hore e joaloka ha Mohlomphehi letona la ka le se le eteletse pele litaba tsena tsa rona and the National Assembly tsa e recording of the 11th Amendment to the Constitution Bill,. ke utloa eka ekare ntho eo a e etsang hona joale ke boitlamo ba bobeli ka hare ho Ntlo ena. Ke se ke etsa boipiletso ho eena, Mohlomphehi, hore joalokaha a ile a etsa pilot ka li 25, (eena o re li 13 ‘na ke re li 25) ka mane ka holimo ka Mpilo a phaeleta a ntse a re, tsena li tloheleng tsena li fetiseng, tsena li etseng joang.
Ke se ke re le tsona tsena tsa rona ha a fihla ka mola a ‘na li khanne ka tsela eona eno; Mohlomphehi a se ke a li etsa molemong oa rona re le Litho tsa Senate a li etse a utloa boipiletso ba Ntat’a rona Rabasotho ea reng….
MR CHAIR-PERSON: Honourable member, ho na le nako eo re tla fumana ho komela taba eno, ha re se re le mothating o mong. Mona moo re leng teng hona joale re ne re mpa re kena mahamong a Setšoantšo sena sa rona.
… HON.SENATOR K. MASUPHA: Ke tla kena ka nako e nepahetseng, kea leboha, Ntate.
MR CHAIR-PERSON :Kea leboha, Morena oa ka.
Ke Motaung hakere ke tlameha ho ba motho oa ha Makhakhe.
Question put and agreed.
HON. MINISTER L. RAKUOANE: Ntate Molula-setulo, ke ntse ke emetse eane hoba joale ke se ke ntse ke bona hore e tla tloha e salla, eane ea haeso. Ke kopa ke tl’o tla e mover. Re ne re e kopile…
HON.SENATOR K.L.K THEKO: …ntho eo ha se eona e tl’o tla senya…! A-e, ke eona e tl’o tla e lokisa hobane le ‘na ke tla ke khanna khomo e nyoloha mona….
Ke nahana hore joale ke kena ho Order paper for the purpose of recording. Hakere ntho eo hona joale u e entse Senate Order! So, supplementary ke ne ke utloisisa feela hore ke e kenyang taba ena! So, ke ne ke re ho etsoe record, hore Supplementary Order Paper e kenyeletsa Sehlomathiso sena seo ke se sisinyang,
Eo ke seng ke e balile ke itse e baleha tjena, not with standing. Ke ho re e bua ka mantsoe a mang. Re hlomathisa clause 1 of the main Bill, joale e be clause 1 e ba le subclause 2. Now we say subsection 1 is,… ‘The purpose of alternation of the procedure of this Constitution requires this to be submitted to the majority of votes of the electoral under section 85 3(b) and subject to reference number of the Act of 2022.
“…provision shall, if approved by the majority of electors run operation of the date to be appointed by the minister responsible for law, by notice in the public gazette”
So, I move.
Ke lebohile, Ntate Molula-setulo.
MR CHAIR-PERSON: Honourable Minister, re re ha re sa na nako ea taba ena ha re etse mosebetsi.
Rea leboha, Honourable Minister.
Question put and agreed.
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Litho tse Khabane, Lihlomathiso li fetile ka Komiting, empa re boetse re na le insertion e ncha e emang e le karolo ea Lithomathiso.
Ke kopa u re tataise mothating o hlahlamang, Honourable Minister.
HON. ADV. L. RAKUOANE: That is the next motion ha ke re, Ntate? Ke ema ho sisinya hore the Senate Proceed to the Third Reading of the Bill forthwith. So, I move, Ntate Vice-President.
Question that the Bill be read a Third Time and do pass put and agreed to.
HON. ADV. L. RAKUOANE: Ke ema ke sisinya, Ntate Vice-President, that this Bill be read the Third Time and do pass. Ke mpe ke re ke leboha ka bokhutšoanyane feela hore re bile mona moo re leng teng, ‘me re leka ho hlompha Tumellano le taelo ea Motlotlehi ea hore ho sebetsoe, leha e se ntse e le mantsiboea tjena re tla sebetsa ka thata. Ke itse le liofisiri ke li lakaletsa li be le matla a tšosang bosiung bona hoa lokisa litokomane tsena hore li tle li tsebe ho saenoa, e le hore ha letsatsi lena le likela ho bo felile.
Ka ’nete ke lebohile, Ntate, ka monyetla oo re o filoeng hore ebe re ile ra khutlela mona Senateng.
So, ke lebohile, Ntate.
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Seconder. Morena oa ka oa Liphamola.
HON. SENATOR K.L.K. THEKO: Oa Liphamola?
MR. VICE-PRESIDENT: Morena Khoabane.
HON. SENATOR K.L.K. THEKO: Kea leboha, Mohlomphehi. Ka ’nete haeba litaba tsena li phethahala, re tla be re utloa joale hore Bahlomphehi bana ba mametse litaba tsa Molimo, hobane ke litaba tsa sechaba. Mohlomong technicalities li ile tsa ba thusa hore ba ka rata ho ithuta ho hana leha balaeli ba bona, bakhethi ba bona ba laetse. Ka ’nete ha u ka oa sheba, techinically Melao e mengata le lintho tse ntle, rona re ne re iketsisitse hore re li ise e le tsa sechaba li le joalo, haholo hobane li ile tsa etsoa. Ke hore ‘na ke ne ke maketse hore na eena Honourable Minister o ne a tlile, a le teng ka har’a Ntlo ea NRA. Ha a ka thiba tšebetso ha e ntse e tsamaea hore a re eletse accordingly, empa re ne re tsamaea le liakhente tse kholo, tse neng li ntse li etsa le ho utloisisa litaba.
Empa ke batla hore ke hopotse Litho tsa haeso tsa Senate le tsa National Assembly hobane Thapelo ea bona e ea hlaha, eo ba e buang everyday, e reng:
“Molimo ea matla ‘ohle, ke ka uena feela Marena a busang le Mahosana a sebetsang ka toka. Ke ho uena feela ho fumanoang bohlale, kelello le kutloisiso. Rona Bahlanka ba hau ba fokolang re phuthehile mona ha ’moho ka lebitso la hau, ‘me re kopa ka boikokobetso hore u re tšollele bohlale bo tsoang holimo, ho re bontša le ho re tsamaisa ho tsohle tseo re tlang ho li etsa. U re thuse re tsamaee ka tšabo pel’a sefahleho sa hau. Re lahlele hole le rona lithato tsa pelo tsa rona, boikhohomoso le boitšepi. Tsohle tseo re tla li etsa mona e be tse tlotlisang lebitso la hau le halalelang. E be tšebetso ea borapeli ba ‘nete le toka, e be poloko le hlompho le thabo ho Motlotlehi, Khosi Letsie III le tšireletso ho Tona-Kholo ea rona, Matona le Litho tsohle tse Khabane tse phuthehileng mona. E be nala lefatšeng le khotso, mefere-fere e fele ka hohle. Lipelo tsa bohle li ke li kopane, ‘me lerato la ‘nete la bokreste la ho rata bana ba bo rona le tiee. Ka Jeso Kreste Morena le mopholosi oa rona.
Amen.”
Ke bala thapelo ena hobane ka ’nete re etsa lintho tseo ekareng li fapane le tšobotsi ena eo re e rapelang everyday. When we open this House, re etsa thapelo ena, ea boitelo, ea ho bontša ho tlosa bo-rona, empa re sheba thato eo Morena Molimo a nang le eona le sechaba sa hae.
E ne e tla ba ntho e tlotlollang, ebile e tla ‘ne e be eona haeba litaba tsena ha li na ho nkeloa hloohong, tsena tsa tseo re li behang.
Re leboha your passion, Honourable Minister. Of course re tlameha re u tlole ha re sa bone hantle hore na u etsang, empa ha se ho u loantša, ha se ho u hloea. Ke tsela eo re lokelang re u bontše ha litaba li sa tsamaee ka mokhoa oo re etsang.
Rea tseba hore matla a lutse ho bona, empa mona ba tlameha ba be ba iphapantse, ba tlositse boikhohomoso le boitšepo, ba hopole hore ba behiloe mono ke sechaba, especially if they will still want to be re-elected hore ba tsebahale hore ba entse mosebetsi oa taelo ea sechaba, ka hona ka ‘nete ke thabela taba ena haholo hobane ke utloile hore ho ne ho e-na le motho ea neng a bua hore ekare ho thoe e-e ha le ka la lumela taba ea Paramount Chief le tla be le ba qetile. E-e ka ‘nete re ne re na le tjantjello ea litaba tsena tse etsang eliminate from the people.
You know I was with you, u ne u le teng kahare ho NRA(NATIONAL REVENUE AUTHORITY), u utloile boikitlaetso ba batho bano, ba ne ba bile ba etsa li bench-marking. Batho bano ha b’aetsa mesebetsi ena feela, ba ne ba sheba hore na ha re bua ka a certain office ebe ha habo rona moo re ka e etsa joang? Ghana e etsa joang, Kenya e etsa joang, Nigeria e etsa joang? We did all that bench-mark, ka ‘nete we were surprised hore lintho tse joalo li ile tsa hanoa with no reasoning altogether behind. Empa ha ele mona re fihletse_rea ts’epa hore hore ha ba no hlakola letho ba tla fetisa taba eno. Khotso e re ‘ne re ee Likhethong joale hobane Motlotlehi did not even want to commit to change the date of Elections, He only gave us a present time ea beke feela, ‘me re qetile haeba we are willing, haeba you will tell me. I wish I could follow you ke il’o mamela ha batho bana…,_ ke utloe hore na ba tlil’o r’eng.
Ke nahana hore re eeng hore re il’o mamela hore na hantle-ntle ba re ba ka hana joang litaba… ha se tsa Senate ka ‘nete ke tsa NRA. Ka ‘nete kea leboha Mohlomphehi oa ka, le ‘na ke felehetsa ka mantsoe ana Mohlomphehi hore ha re sebeletseng khotso re pusheng together hore Lesotho le tle le fumane a change of heart le mokhoa oo sechaba sa Basotho se lakalitseng kateng.
Kea leboha Mohlomphehi.
Question proposed.
HON.SENATOR. S.K. MASUPHA: Mohlomphehi kea leboha, ke ne ke le mane moo ke neng ke leka ho bonts’a hore maikutlo ana a sechaba, ao hangata ho thoeng maikutlo a sechaba ke maikutlo a Molimo. Hobane sechaba ke sona sa Basotho ka ho khetholoha, ke sona se etsang hore litaba… hore puso e be teng le hore e se ke ea ba teng, ‘me haeba litaba tse joalo li ne li sa tl’o feta re ne re tla etsa hore uena Mohlomphehi Letona la ka, re ee ho sona sechaba seno re il’o se bolella.
Empa le hona joale ke se ntse ke phatlalatsa, ke se ntse ke phatlalatsa ka pele ho Ntlo ena Mohlomphehi hore Paramente ea Lesotho, ka Ntlo e ka holimo e leng Ntlo ea Senate e lumellana le hore maikutlo a sechaba a hlomphuoe, ‘me motho a kekeng a hlompha sechaba sena se kebe sa mo utloa. Le ‘na ke se ke re sechaba motho a sa hlompheng maikutlo a lona, le se kebe la mo mamela, ntho e ‘ngoe feela eo le tlang ho e sebelisa ke monoana oa lona, le sebelise monoana oa lona ka toka hore batho bana re bone hore ha ba re rate, ba etsa hore ho be le batho ba bang ba etsang hore puso e be le mathata.
Batho ba bang ba etsa hore puso e thekesele, batho ba bang ba etsa hore puso e putlame hobane ha puso e tsamaisoa hampe naha e ba putsoa. Esale re tloha ka 1993 ha puso ea sechaba ka sechaba e qala, ka ‘nete lintho tse ngata tse neng li le teng pele puso ea sechaba ka sechaba e qala, li ne li le ngata. Empa esale re fihla pusong ena lintho li ile tsa fela tseo puso eo ho neng ho thoe ha se ea democracy eleng ea manasi, ea Morena Leabua, ‘Moea oa hae o phomole ka khotso’, e ile ea etsa lintho tse kholo ka hare ho naha ea Lesotho. Basotho ba ne ba khora Mohlomphehi, Basotho ba ne ba ja ntho e’ngoe le e ’ngoe, ba ne ba fumana sohle seo motho a se hlokang hoo batho ba bang ba ileng ba ba mona ke taba eno. Mohlomphehi ke hopola haholo ka taba ea tsela ea rona e kholo ea Main North1,Main South1, e tlohang Butha-Buthe, Mechachane, e eang Quthing, e neng e le ntle. Ke hobane sepheo e ne e le hore e lengoa lifate, joale empa batho ba bang ba ile ba ikhethela hore ba fothole lifate tseno mono. Ho na le Morena a le mong feela, Mohlomphehi, ea ileng a hana. Ke Morena oa Maroala. Lea e bona mehlala ea lifate tseno.
Ka hona, Mohlomphehi, e se e ka lipelo li ka ba mongobo hore sechaba se shejoe pele, tse ling li tla shejoa ka Morao.
Ka hona, Mohlomphehi, ke re ka ‘nete ke ema ke tiisa hore taba e fetisitsoeng ea Lihlomathiso tsa Ntlo ea Senate tse bonahetseng pampiring e-na ea National Assembly li lahluoe – re sa tsebe hore na li lahloa hoban’eng, e ne eka ekare li etsetsoa rona athe,ee, ha se tsa rona;ke litumellano tseo Mohlomphehi Rakuoane le Morena oa Thaba ba ileng ba ea ka pele ho Motlotlehi, eaba ba itlama hore Matlo a mabeli a lumellane hore tsena tse ileng tsa etsoa mane hoteleng li fetisoe li ntse li le joalo.
Re ile ra utloa re makala feela ha re bona tse ling litumellano li tsomuloa, li tsenkolloa, li beoa kamoo motho a ratang kateng.
Ka hona, Mohlomphehi, ka boikokobetso ke mpa ke re ho boloka nako ka ‘nete ke tlatsa hore Lihlomathiso tsena li fete joalo ka ha li le tjena, ‘me li il’o sebeletsa Basotho.
Kea leboha.
Question, put and agreed to.
MR VICE-PRESIDENT: Lihlomathiso li fetile, ‘me taba eo e boetse e re fihlisa pheletsong ea rona ea mosebetsi oa letsatsi la kajeno, Ntlo e tla phomola e sa bolele letsatsi la ho buloa.
ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE
Thereupon, Mr. Vice-President adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 16 (3).
The House was Adjournment Sine Die at 1721 hours.